Blog Entry

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

Posted on: February 24, 2012 10:09 am
Edited on: February 24, 2012 12:39 pm
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Here's a random old pic of a coin toss, since there's no vid or pics of Friday's action. (Getty Images)
By Will Brinson

INDIANAPOLIS -- The 2012 NFL Draft order is finalized: the Dolphins and Chiefs won coin tosses (against the Panthers and Seahawks, respectively) on Friday morning in Indianapolis to secure the eighth (Miami) and 11th (KC) picks in the draft.

The Panthers will now select ninth in April, and the Seahawks -- losers to the Chiefs -- will select 12th. The coin tosses took place early in the morning, utilizing specially-designed, commemorative coins. There were no media present (or allowed, for that matter), but the teams streamed the flip live on their various websites.

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"It kind of went straight up and it didn’t start flipping until it hit the ground," Chiefs GM Scott Pioli described. "It’s a huge difference because in that one spot in the draft you don’t know who the other team is going to pick. It’s just an earlier opportunity for you to get what you want in the draft."

While the difference between winning and losing the toss is only one pick, it does make a huge difference. If a team like the Panthers was (hypothetically) eying someone like UNC defensive end Quinton Coples, they'd be in a world of hurt with the Dolphins now one spot ahead of them.

"I think it makes a big difference,” Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland said on Thursday. "I’ve never been into a draft where I didn’t feel like if you’re at the 10th pick there are nine players and if you’re the 22nd pick there’s usually 20 players so you’re usually right behind it. So the higher up the board I can get, as long as it’s with the flip of a coin, I’ll take it."

Perhaps the biggest difference in the one draft spot is the value in a potential trade: for every spot that a team moves up, the value of the pick grows exponentially.

Just ask anyone trying to move up to the Rams spot at No. 2 overall.

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Comments

Since: May 31, 2007
Posted on: February 27, 2012 6:06 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

Yeah, the point value differences on the chart are extremely high at the top end.  So it can be very costly to move up even a couple of spots in the first half of the first round.  That's why the Chargers got so much a few years ago in the Manning/Rivers trade (which was really just a move from 4 to 1 in the first round).

Later on, the curve flattens out quite a bit.  It's also possible though, that these values may change now that the pay scale for rookies is different.  I don't know exactly what effect it will eventually have... but it seems like people may be more willing to trade around, knowing that they don't have to shell out a massive chunk of salary cap in the top 10 anymore.



Since: Dec 22, 2011
Posted on: February 26, 2012 12:41 am
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

ok so the chart isn't as super ninja cia secret as I thought lol not if espn has it lol.  but it doesn't show how the values change based on trading up or down...but I supppose it doesn't  have too...just looking at the difference between where my Chiefs are at 11 vs wanting them to trade up to 2 to get like an RG3 yikes odds not in their favor unless they sweeten the pot to STLs liking...I mean I guess that should be but from 1-11 there is over a 50% drop in value sheeesh lol. 




Since: Sep 10, 2008
Posted on: February 25, 2012 9:40 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft

06/news/story?id=2410670



Since: Sep 10, 2008
Posted on: February 25, 2012 9:39 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

Here is the draft chart that Virtual GM was asking about. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft

06/news/story?id=2410670



Since: Dec 22, 2011
Posted on: February 25, 2012 4:13 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

so for all you haters and trolls out there see I can do more then just a four letter word vocab...its just that when you get deleted and censored its Frustrating as hell especially in a society that should never allow censorship or put up with it in any forms whether its the federal government, a school system, or a private business....but that is another rant for another place and I wanted to make this a seperate addendum from my last post so it would stand out more to all the haters :P





Since: Dec 22, 2011
Posted on: February 25, 2012 4:11 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

Irony...perfect...and true...cbs is a private business not the federal government and like private businesses can they can and do limit what is and isn't said...true enough I just hate that...now for what was deleted probably will be deleted again. 

I simply asked if anyone knew the mathematical formula/points or whatever the scale is to really judege value by numbers at least in the nfl draft?  Awhile back I swear I saw a draft website that had each draft spot worth a certain amount of points and the points changed based on the spot of the draft a team was drafting and whether they decided to move up, down or stay put and draft at the spot to determine where they got the most mathematical, and strategic value.  I also just said that I don't honestly think its an arbitrary "gut feeling" by just talent assessment alone that makes GMs decide what to do or whom to take in a draft especially now with a bad team being able to be turned around in 2-3 years in the NFL with the right front office.  This website had each spot designed a certain number of points and I looked at it for the Chiefs and it said that the position would be GREAT, AMAZINGLY GREAT for the Chiefs to move up in the draft however needing a partner to move up with the #11 spot wasn't a super enticing spot for this draft at least and most other teams ahead of them would loose value by doing such that is they would loose and be in more negative points for example if the top spot was worth 2,000 points if they dropped down to #11 then they'd go from a 2,000 point value to a 1250 point value so they'd loose (be in the negative) 750 points and most teams look to break even and use that 2,000 points or find a partner who's in a position where the partner and the team looking to make a trade can both be in the positive. 

For another example the website said the Chiefs could use the pick and have this many value points or if they move down they would actually gain another group of points and be in the positive for mathematical value....now again mathematical value of draft position doesn't gurantee anything except that maybe a team is doing everything it can to get the most bang for the buck...however again this is arbitrary...I find going to Wendy's dollar menu is great for my bottom line that is getting the the most for the least...but nutritionally it sucks and is very poor just to show one of several flaws in the "best value" argument"  because a healthy, organic balanced meal might cost me $40 dollars but be worth it more nutritionally and healthwise so this Website had the Chiefs moving down and selecting like a Kontz or an Adams or a Poe around the late teens or 20s because by thier formula those teams to trade up would be in the points positive and so would the Chiefs so everyone wins.  Anyone else seen a website like this that breaks the draft down into a mathematical and points value system?  Again I believe the GMs know the formula and I refuse to believe they just move and choose in the draft base on arbitrary "gut decisions" regardless of how good or bad the gm of your football team...keep in mind not everyone interprets info the same way.  That is the post that got deleted...before...why?  IS it on to something?  Do the powers that be not want us to know what I maybe accidentally stumbled upon since I can't find it again...and if so why hide it?  Maybe so the fans can have access to the same info GMs have so they be their truely own Virtual...Armchair GM and do it probably better then perhaps their favorite teams real gm...how embarrassing would that be for the franchise and for the nfl as a whole if joe schmoe public could really do job better in the draft then most of the GMs in the game now...Conspiracy.....



Since: Aug 13, 2011
Posted on: February 25, 2012 3:29 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

@VirtualGM:
Don't know what you said that got your post deleted, but there is nothing about your "freedom of speech" that guarantees that your post won't be deleted. It says you can say whatever it is you said without fear of being arrested by government officials (usually). It does not prevent it from being deleted from a sports blog. The Constitution does not apply here.



Since: Oct 24, 2011
Posted on: February 25, 2012 3:28 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

This post was directed at VirtualGM

Maybe if you had a vocabulary that consisted of more than four letter words your posts wouldn't get deleted.  I'm not a prude, but you could have made every point on here without all the obscenities.  I don't want my 9 year to have to see the kind of crad you post on here that doesn't add ANYTHING to sports  



Since: Oct 24, 2011
Posted on: February 25, 2012 3:26 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

Maybe if you had a vocabulary that consisted of more than four letter words your posts wouldn't get deleted.  I'm not a prude, but you could have made every point on here without all the obscenities.  I don't want my 9 year to have to see the kind of crad you post on here that doesn't add ANYTHING to sports 



Since: Feb 5, 2009
Posted on: February 25, 2012 12:50 pm
 

Dolphins, Chiefs win coin toss, draft order set

"It kind of went straight up and it didn’t start flipping until it hit the ground," Chiefs GM Scott Pioli described
Wow!  Play by play on a coin toss!  What riveting journalism! 


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