Blog Entry

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

Posted on: February 28, 2012 2:16 pm
Edited on: February 28, 2012 5:35 pm
So happy together? (Getty Images)
By Will Brinson

We already know that St. Louis "will" trade out of the No. 2 spot in April's NFL Draft. Even before reports of that, there was little debate about the Rams pulling in a haul for Robert Griffin III. That's because, as Clark Judge wrote recently, the Rams are sitting on a "gold mine."

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But we haven't heard any specific potential trade options for RG3. Until Tuesday, when we heard a report about what the Redskins are willing to offer in exchange for the second-overall pick. According to Mike Jones of the Washington Post, Dan Snyder's team is willing to part with two No. 1 picks "plus other selections in the middle to early rounds" in exchange for the rights to RG3.

Presumably, the Redskins would use their No.1 pick in 2012's draft (sixth overall) and package it with their No. 1 pick in 2012 (currently undetermined) and try to create a package similar to what the Giants used in 2004 when they acquired Eli Manning from the Chargers. At that time, the Giants gave up two No. 1 picks (one of which was Philip Rivers) plus a third- and fourth-round pick in that draft in exchange for Manning.

Two things on this. One (and this is something I never thought I'd say), RG3 would be a perfect fit with Mike Shanahan's offense. According to Pro Football Focus, Rex Grossman threw downfield (20 times or more) the 12th-most number of times of any quarterback in the NFL last year. He did that without starting every single game and he did it without being accurate. Rolling out of the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield before throwing a laser is what RG3 does best. It would be fun to watch and he would be quite successful.

But then there's point No. 2: I'm not sure that two first-round picks is enough to land Griffin. If the Redskins are getting their initial salvo out there publicly this soon, it's entirely possible that someone else is willing to package an additional first-round pick in order to land the coveted Baylor prospect.

However, the timing of this should be clear: the Redskins would like to get something locked down before free agency. Though they wouldn't be technically allowed to make a deal until the draft approached, the Redskins and Rams could have a handshake agreement on a deal prior to that. And Washington and Mike Shanahan can't go into 2012 without a quarterback.

If they get to free agency and don't have a sense that they can get Griffin on draft day, they absolutely need to pursue someone in free agency that can improve their play at quarterback immediately, whether that's someone like Peyton Manning, Matt Flynn or just Kyle Orton.

The question then becomes whether or not Washington's potential offer of four very good picks qualifies as enough for Jeff Fisher and Les Snead to take Griffin off the trading block and come to an agreement on the terms of a draft-day trade prior to the start of free agency. That's risky as the value of the No. 2 pick could continue to skyrocket as the draft approaches.

But if teams fill their quarterback issues via free agency, it's also possible that the value of the pick could drop or remain stagnant. By striking early, it's possible the Rams could get the best-possible deal well in advance of the draft, and really begin planning out how to fill their roster with high-end talent.

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Since: Dec 1, 2009
Posted on: February 28, 2012 11:31 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

BannerCA, (1) Franchise QBs of the first water seldom leave before their teeth grow long. One waits for the same reason that one some wines are allowed to age into their character; because one must. (2) Given a cap hit of only $5 million, it wouldn't entirely surprise me were Snyder to sit him behind Peyton for two or three years, even four. Usually this is no longer done in the NFL, but the new CBA and the fact that it's #18 and Shannahan, not to mention an Army brat who'll be holding the clipboard, allow for speculation. (3) Vick is a hothouse plant, it's true, but Griffin puts me more in mind of a less impulsive Brett Favre. Mississippi isn't in anywise like Green Bay, but Brett RULED in the winter wind. (4) I'll give you he's slight of build, but so was Fran Tarkenton, so you never know. (5) It's amazing how much better a good QB makes his receivers; even more so, how he they start asking their agents can they go play in Washington, please?! (6) There are no sure bets. (7) Except the one you already have; such is Sam Bradford.

Right now, there are, by my count, exactly eleven franchise QBs in the NFL. At most (Peyton.) They come and they go, but there are never even close to enough of them. Soon, there'll be several middle-aged men left holding the keys to the family limo, poor fellows.

Since: Dec 1, 2009
Posted on: February 28, 2012 10:53 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

Hey, Tom/halnas, Tell you what, old boy, if you can get the Vikings #3, I'll take a package of THAT and your #22 straight up. Why? Because I needs me an OLT. Wait, hold that thought...sorry, Tom, that was Shanahan. I'm going to have to put that offer on hold long enough to hear what he has to say. Well, maybe I should return Pete's call, too. His voicemail seemed urgent. Later.

Since: Dec 1, 2009
Posted on: February 28, 2012 10:41 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

pdmagic113, in the event that you are unaware of this, there is a chart that is currently the generally accepted starting point for the consideration of such trades. Here's an address:


I understand that the original chart, of which this is a revision, was worked up by Jimmy Johnson soon after he took over the Cowboys. (Perhaps it had something to do with the Herschel Walker trade.) Whoever drew it up apparently did a bang-up job, because it was widely accepted around the league in short order. The eventual prohibitive costs of high draft picks led to efforts at revision; even then, it became increasingly difficult to pull the trigger on those high numbers. It's likely that the buzz we're hearing now has much to do with the haircut that such deals have taken in the current CBA. Always nice to have something to get jazzed about in the off-season.

One thing to keep in mind: the value of a future draft pick is rather more fluid, but the most common meme has it that NEXT year's pick is roughly worth the points for the next lower pick this year. The disagreements might start over exactly where it's fair to forecast that pick to be, given the relationship of its worth to its position in that round, which is conditional on the success of the team originally assigned to that pick.

Straight up on the chart, the Browns two 1s + its 6 are worth 2,605.4 points as the Rams #2 pick. Alternatively, the Browns could offer its #4 + its 2-3-6 picks for the same value. That #2 pick of the Rams is worth 2600.0. Or the Browns could do the second deal, but substitute next year's 1 for this year's 2. All are arguable positions, anyway. None of this is in a vacuum, of course; both teams will have handicapped the likelihood of players they value most highly being where they would pick in each scenario.

I would imagine that some of thse guys get headaches juggling all of this in their mind, while others take to it like a duck to water. One more layer of difficulty added to the job that was intended to solve existing problems.

Since: Sep 9, 2009
Posted on: February 28, 2012 10:27 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

I've thought the Redskins would make an 'over the top' offer for Peyton Manning.  Now I am not so sure.  RGIII seems like a franchise.  And that's something Snyder has not done yet.  Jason Campbell has been impressive to a certain degree.  But a #2 pick for a QB is something we haven't seen yet from him.  Lots of us kick him around, but he wants to win.  I think ALL NFL fans recognize that.  Matt Flynn?  Maybe.  No matter what, I see the 'Skins grabbing a QB.  The price the Rams will be asking - ?  I'll bet the current value EXCEEDS the Eli Manning spin we saw in the article.  And why not?  STL needs MUCH.  Spagnuolo did what he could with what he had.  The StL front office is in the driver's seat and they WILL be greedy.  I've seen references to Kevin Kolb's deal with the Cardinals.  Draft picks vs 'One-Hit Wonders'.  John Skelton's performance last season, calls into question the wisdom of crazy contracts for questionable FA's.  The whole Matt Cassel thing with the Chiefs will forever ring in people's ears.  Cassel was stout for the Patriots.  But a #1 ?  Kolb-?  Flynn ?  For sure the Dolphins need a QB too.  It should be fun and interesting for us fans.

Since: Dec 1, 2009
Posted on: February 28, 2012 10:14 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

pdmagic113, you've got things a tad backwards, I'm afraid. It isn't that the Rams are "asking" for anything; rather, they've simply let out the word that bids will be entertained. If they're lucky, then someone will present them with an offer which they regard as too good to be passed up. Why might they do this? So as to avoid the possibility of a blind auction, where everyone is trying to gauge the level of desparation of the other buyers--when none of them are even in the room. Do this AFTER free agency, with three or more serious bidders, and it resembles a game of blind Twister on a bed of punji sticks. (Key question in that event? WWDSD? As in 'What Will Daniel Snyder do?')

Since: Jun 25, 2009
Posted on: February 28, 2012 9:35 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

I have another 3:

Matt Ryan (NFC Wildcard berth 2008, rookie)
Joe Flacco (AFC Wildcard berth 2008, rookie)
Mark Sanchez (AFC Wildcard berth, 2009, rookie)

Atlanta rebuilt almost their entire offensive line, added a probowl running back and Ryan had a probowl wide receiver and an all world tight end.   

Flacco had an awesome defense, ditto for Mark Sanchez except Sanchez also had a really good running game.

Somebody else said Ben in Pitt?  Great running game and great D.....

Rookie qb's normally lose a lot of games, unless they end up in great situations.

Washington is NOT a great situation, not at all.  Can they become a good team?  Absolutely, it happens all the time in the NFL where a team that struggled gets good fast.  But RG3 doesn't have the support the above quarterbacks had in their rookie seasons.

Since: Apr 21, 2011
Posted on: February 28, 2012 9:07 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

You may not be as knowledgeable as you credit yourself. Your opinion is written as though though the Rams wouldn't get much in a trade for Bradford. If Bradford has little trade value, it's because he is not the franchise QB you allege him to be. He is not a proven franchise QB, but rather a gold arm and lead feet behind a woeful OL. OL's take 3+ years to rebuild-at best, involving finding the players and their gaining sufficient experience to become a strong unit-if they develop. The Rams should take the most value-and if it isn't in offered trades, take Griffin. This is the same Rams team that traded Eric Dickerson for a mint in blown draft choices.

Since: Apr 15, 2008
Posted on: February 28, 2012 7:50 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

 Redskins also need to lock this deal in early. This will enable the Skins to make subsequent deals and acquire a few more picks before draft day. Bottom line Redskins need to make this deal, nothing is a sure thing, however RGIII & Andrew Luck are the best prospects in years. And if Indy wants to get cute, and take RGIII instead of Luck, The Skins "Luck out."

Since: Jun 20, 2010
Posted on: February 28, 2012 7:32 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

Do all you people out there saying trade Bradford and draft Robert Griffin actually hear how dumb you sound.  Trading Bradford is not even a question if you know anything about how football works and what actually wins in the NFL these days.  Look I like Griffin, I think he's going to be a great QB, but is he going to be better than Bradford?  Maybe, but not so much that you would trade Bradford, eat the 18 million he would count against the cap this season and throw away the potentially 4 additional high draft picks you will get for keeping him and trading the 2nd overall pick.  In my opion most the people saying trade Bradford and keep Griffin are either people that are to ignorant to think past just the player or people that want so bad to have a winning Black QB in the NFL that they will do anything to try and make it happen.  Is Griffin the best black QB to come out in a while, yes he is, even better than Newton just for the fact that Griffin actually has an intelligent head on his shoulders and Newton can barely spell his name on a good day.  I just hope the Rams don't mess this up and get everything they can for the 2nd overall pick in this years draft and that includes coming away from this years draft with Blackmon, so Bradford has someone to throw and grow with for several years to come.  I will say this, I don't see the Rams trading the Griffin pick to anyone in their division and if they can would prefer to trade him to Cleveland and keep him out of the NFC all togehter.

So hopefully after reading this all you so called Rams fans will stop saying draft Griffin and trade Bradford or better yet go get another favorite team and lower our ignorance number by a whole lot. 

Since: Sep 13, 2006
Posted on: February 28, 2012 7:12 pm

Report: Skins willing to deal 1sts, more for RG3

Stop the "Why Not Trade Bradford?" BS. Because they'd be LUCKY to get a mid 1st round pick for him after last year's pounding. Bradford's going nowhere. (Check out Peter King's column in SI today.) I'm a Skins fan. Two #1s and probably two #3s is what it's gonna take. Do the deal.

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