Cowher vs Tomlin - A 6 Year Study

What about Chuck Noll in the mix, he was the original Steelers coach before cowher

One correction. Lyman was a Browns fan before most of your GREAT-GRANDfathers were born.

Lol, he was a Browns fan before George Washington was a president

Lol, he was a Browns fan before George Washington was a president

If I weren't a Hessian mercinary, MY picture would be on the 1 dollar bill. 

Most boat captains ask their passengers to wear life vests, Lym requires scuba gear.

That's because I can't find the keys to one of my boats.  Pretty sure I left it in the ignition. 

The local Coast Guard in Huron is the only CG station with a submarine in it's fleet - they named it Lymagain.

It's the USS Lymagain !  How many US warships do you have named after you?  I'll wait. 

When Lym goes fishing he's the bait.

Unless after fishing for scank.  Then I just mention Beachbum.  Catch my limit every time ! 

Michael Phelps listed boat trips with Lyman as his most effective training regimen

Meh.  I do my part.  He had a better year then my Browns or your Steelers combined. 

Lym's favorite food - seaweed

Beach, I thought you ran an upscale Bar & Grille?  Never heard of sushi? 



{I'll be here all week.  Leave a tip.  I'm on a fixed income.}

Cut me in a street fight

Don't tempt us. 

Don't tempt us.

Oooh, Oooh, Oooh  Don't hurt me you big strong tough guy.






What a douche.

No the douche would be the old guy who has no sense of humor. . . . 




that would be you! 

Someone asked where Chuck Noll stacked up against these two:  At the 6 year mark:

Noll's age:  42
Cowher's age:  40
Tomlin age"  40

Noll's Regular Season W - L Record: 43 - 40 - 1
Cowher's Regular season W-L record:  64 - 32
Tomlin's Regular season W - L record: 63 - 33

Noll's Playoff Record: 4 -2 w/ 1 AFC Championship & 1 Super Bowl appearance & 1 Super Bowl win
Cowher's Playoff Record:  5 - 6 w/ 1 AFC Championship & Super Bowl appearance
Tomlin's Playoff Record: 5 - 3 w/ 2 AFC Championships & Super Bowl appearances & 1 Super Bowl win

Noll's Offense ranked in top 10 in passing: 0 times
Cowher's Offense ranked in top 10 in passing: 1 time
Tomlin's Offense ranked in top 10 in passing:  2 times

Noll's Offense raniked in top 10 rushing:  2 times
Cowher's Offense ranked in top 10 in rushing:  5 times
Tomlin's Offense ranked in top 10 in rushing:  3 times

Noll's Defense ranked in top 5:  3 times
Cowher's Defense ranked in top 5:  4 times
Tomlin's Defense ranked in top 5:   6 times

Noll's team having a (-) turnover ratio:  2 times
Cowher's team having a (-) turnover ratio:  1 time
Tomlin's team having a (-) turnover ratio:  4 times

Big difference there is that Noll really did take over a terrible team and his cupboard truly was pretty bare.  What he and the scouting department did with the drafts from 1969-74 was absolutely remarkable.

Comparing Noll's first few seasons to those of Cowher and Tomlin just isn't right.  Cowher and Tomlin both took over teams with immense talent, Noll didn't.

Comparing Noll's first few seasons to those of Cowher and Tomlin just isn't right. 

Very very true.  I believe the comparison was more of curiosity instead of ranking.

Cowher and Tomlin both took over teams with immense talent, Noll didn't.

When Noll took over, Pittsubrgh had only a history of losing and was considered one of the worst franchises in the NFL.  When Cowher and then Tomlin took over, Pittsburgh had a history (although not recent for Cowher) of winning and being one of the best franchises in the NFL.

Comparing Noll's first few seasons to those of Cowher and Tomlin just isn't right.  Cowher and Tomlin both took over teams with immense talent, Noll didn't.

Absolutely, and what's even more impressive is what Noll and co. did in the later rounds.  I think someone put up just one of Noll's year's late rounders that showed at least 3 HoF'ers.  A true giant among talent evaluators during his tenure in Pittsburgh, undoubtedly.

Cowher had to build his team and develop his zone blitz scheme he, Lebeau and Capers came up with.

Its my understanding that Dick Lebeau came up with the zone blitz while a DC with the Bengals under Sam Wyche in the 80s.  That's not to say that it didn't develop while Lebeau was with the Steelers in the 90s, but you make it sound like Cowher was involved in "coming up with" the concept, which he wasn't.

The concept had been around for over a decade and the Noll coached Steelers of the 80s and early 90s were using many of the same principles in their 3-4 defense, which the Steelers had been using since the early 80s.

Lebeau's hiring, along with Capers (who doesn't get enough credit in my opinion), may have been the lynchpin that put it all together, but like has already been said, the team already had the talent and the concepts in place before Cowher ever entered into the picture.

Cowher would have done a whole lot better if he had a QB like Ben earlier in his career.

I don't think anybody would deny this.  However, there is something to be said for Cowher's failure to address the most important position on the field for over a decade.  The only QB he ever drafted before the 6th round was Kordell Stewart (in the 2nd of 1995).  Throughout his career, it seemed obvious to me that he just didn't value the QB position the way we do now.  Heck, even in 2004, it was Rooney that had to step in and override Cowher to draft Roethlisberger!

In many of Cowher's seasons with the Steelers, the only thing missing that kept them from winning Superbowls was the lack of a clutch QB.  Now, typically, I give him a bit of a pass on it because the reality is that the league didn't value the QB position in the 90s the way it does now.  Teams were not built the same way they are built in today's game.  You can look at Superbowl history and see it is littered with QBs that were drafted low or no name guys prior to the past 15 years.  The game has moved on since then and you just don't compete for a Superbowl consistently anymore without a franchise passer.

That isn't the NFL that Cowher came in to, so I don't fault him that much for ignoring the QB position the way he did. 

Here is a great article on the history of the zone blitz:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id
/8428129/dick-lebeau-evolution-cove
rage-tactics-zone-blitz

No mention of Cowher in its creation or development, though.

  Throughout his career, it seemed obvious to me that he just didn't value the QB position the way we do now.

Anyone care to revisit the 2001 draft and the Steelers sitting at #19 with a pretty valid QB (D.B.) waiting for the call . . .  anyone care to guess who the "D.B." represents?   I was certain that even Cowher could not pass the guy up, and yet . . . . Now imagine had Cowher had even the slightest clue about QB play.  How many titles would the guy be responsible for withthe defenses Cowher had from 2001 - 2006?

Quincy Carter?

Drew Brees would have been a heck of a pick at #21, wouldn't it?

Anyone care to revisit the 2001 draft and the Steelers sitting at #19 with a pretty valid QB (D.B.) waiting for the call . . .  anyone care to guess who the "D.B." represents?   I was certain that even Cowher could not pass the guy up, and yet . . . . Now imagine had Cowher had even the slightest clue about QB play.  How many titles would the guy be responsible for withthe defenses Cowher had from 2001 - 2006?

I seriously believe the Steelers would have won AT LEAST 4 Super Bowls with Drew Brees at QB.  There have been a few seasons Ben was simply not good enough (because of the way he plays the game) to get the team over the hump... Drew Brees is a fantastic QB, equal to Tom Brady in my opinion, tied for second behind Peyton Manning among the best QB's over the last 20 years.

50 sacks per year?  Not with Brees
3rd down sacks that take you out of FG range?  Not with Brees
Hold the ball 12-15 seconds to make a play downfield, resulting in a sack/sprained ankle that derails your team's postseason hopes?  Not with Brees.
Motorcycle accidents/sexual assault accusations/bonehead media quotes?  Not with Brees.

Don't get me wrong, Ben is a very good/great QB.  But Brees plays at a whole different level.  That being said, I don't remember Brees being rated that highly that I can blame the Steelers for not drafting him.  Every team did pass on him once, after all.

Most draft scouts had Brees ranked as the 2nd best QB prospect of the 2001 draft behind Michael Vick and that's how it turned out.  Brees, taken at #33, was the 2nd QB off the board.  That type of thing just doesn't happen very often...only 1 first round QB.  Most scouts had Brees rated as a first round talent, but he likely fell due to his size.

According to one scouting site was linked to Pittsburgh, Miami and KC in the first round.

Its fun to wonder what would have happened if they had taken Brees in that draft, just like its fun to wonder what would have happened if they had taken Marino in 1984.

Its fun to wonder what would have happened if they had taken Brees in that draft, just like its fun to wonder what would have happened if they had taken Marino in 1984.

Marino went in the 1983 draft.  That was the Draft that John Elway went first - followed by Todd Blackledge, Jim Kelly, Tony Eason, Ken O'Brien, and then Dan Marino.

Sorry, mlm...of course you are right.  The great QB draft of 83, not 84!