The Pens Thread

For all those that don't have to get up early for work. On VH1CL, channel 218 on Verizon, not sure what the channel is for Comcast, "Beyond the Lighted Stage" is on tonight at 9:00. It's about a 2 or 3 and a half hour show (documentary) of Rush and their rise to fame, the making of their songs, the hard times and how they came to be. It's an excellent show if you haven't seen it. I've watched it about 3 or 4 times, plus the fact that I have to get up early for work. I highly recommend it to anyone that likes RUSH and hasn't seen it. CrowDog has an avatar of them.

CUP4PENS  

And why do they suck so bad at home?

Wood ... I think you answered your own question.  Haha

The Pens, and especially Malkin and Neal on 5-on-5, are trying to be way too fancy.

Key for other teams is to frusterate Malkin. He comes off his game and takes penalties. 

The Blues are slumping lately. And I know last year Chris Stewart was a healthy scratch at times in the regular season and again in the playoffs if I'm remembering correctly. He is making 3 million this year and is an RFA after the season. I wouldn't mind seeing a trade for him. The Blues are a budget team and they got some other players that need are due a raise like potential Norris candidate Alex Pietrangelo. Kennedy and 2nd/3rd draft pick might get it done. Wouldn't be a major move, but a move that could work out nice.

Listening to Bob McKenzie on NHL radio. He was saying both Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry are FA's after this year but doubts the Ducks can sign both with Perry the most likely to be traded before the deadline. He mentioned the three teams that have the most interest are the Flyers, Pens and Redwings. He's underacheiving this year but would be a nice addition.

I said it before the season and Ill say it again, I think the Pens make a big trade for a winger this year. (Barring any major injuries on the blue line). They went hard after Parise in the offseason and I think theyll go hard for someone else. Sid needs a winger. Debate this if you want but they cant keep putting scraps on Sids wing year after year. Kunitz needs to be back on Genos line

They should also think about tearing down the Consol and rebuilding the igloo.

Letang is skating with the team again. I hope he gets back soon, the team is really missing his 2-way play

Perry would be sweet, but I can't imagine the Ducks trading him. They are in 2nd in the West and I don't see why they can't sign Getzlaf and Perry. They have plenty of cap space. I think they would trade Ryan in order to keep Getzlaf and Perry if it came down to it. I also don't know what the Pens have to give up to get him. They are going to want more than a defenseman prospect for such a proven player.

I wouldn't mind going after Chris Stewart. He doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to effort, but he's tough and can score.

Getting someone like Perry is great for this season.  But you are either renting him for just this season, or you are basically saying good by to Letang or perhaps even good bye to Malkin if you sign him.  Perry won't be cheap on his next contract ... easily $5M/year, most likely closer to $6M/year.  

There is just no way with the cap going back down to $64M next season that you can through another $5M+ winger into the mix with what you are already paying Crosby, Malkin and Neal ... and what you are going to need to pay Letang on his next contract.  So something has gotta give.

Also, it won't surprise me at all if they buyout Martin ... even though he is playing better this season ... and then sign Gonchar to his final contract if the price is right.  Signing Gonchar would be as much a move to help Malkin as it would be a hockey move. 

I think Letang's days in Pittsburgh are numbered and they will do everything they can to keep Malkin. We don't have the forward prospects to help replace Malkin, but we do have the defenseman prospects to help replace Letang. So if they need to clear cap space to hold onto someone or to bring someone else in, I think it is pretty clear that Letang would the guy to move.

I don't know if there is a rule against this, but I wonder if they can buyout Martin and then bring him back for less money? He might be offended that they wanted to buy him out, but I also can't imagine any other team giving him $5M/year when the cap is at $64M. I wouldn't mind bringing back Gonchar either though. He's old, but he was never a physical player so it's not like his body has been beaten down over the years.

Gonchar? Really? He sucks at defense and is OLD. I hate when teams bring back old blood when the blood is OLD and wont help. Bringing back Kovalev was helpful, right?? No.

Perry and/or Getzlaf ain't coming here. Get your heads outta your asses. It's writers trying to get hits on their websites or trying to make a name or have egos they need to feed.

Move Letang? Now I have heard it all. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My god some of you people think you'd be the best GM in the world yet you don't know dick.

Same people want to trade Crosby too and give Malkin a $30M/year contract???????!!!!!!!

I just said the same thing about Letang yesterday Pete. If the pens are serious about getting a winger 
then youre going to have to give up something good to get someone good. TK and a prospect aint gonna cut it. With the "depth" at defense in the system it does make sense that Letang would be the one.

I hear what youre saying about the cap crow but they went after Parise hard and he wasnt going to be cheap. They must have had a contingency plan they were comfortable with if they did land him.

Pete I think you can buy someone out and re-sign them.








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Steelwood,

First of all, since when do you care about defense? Gonchar isn't the same player he was, but he is still smart, can move the puck, has a decent shot that he always gets through to the net, and can run a PP as good as anybody in the league. He's not great defensively, but he is still a pretty good player and at the right price could help the Pens.

Second, I agree Perry and/or Getzlaf aren't coming to Pittsburgh.

Third, you can't have it all. If you want a good winger to play with Sid, you are going to have to clear cap space. If Depsres continues to grow and Morrow/Domoulin/Matta/Harringotn/et
c. continue to progress, they have replacements for Letang. Plus you would get a very good return on Letang.

The Steelers have done the same thing with WR. They had Plex and let him walk because they had Holmes. They had Holmes and traded him because they had Wallace. They are probably going to let Wallace walk because they have Brown. They did it with LB too form Greene to Gildon to Porter to Harrison. The Pens even did it by letting Gonchar walk because they had Letang. It's not that they weren't good players. Many of them even went on to have good years after the Steelers let them go. It was just they felt they had a replacement and could better use that money somewhere else.

You need to know when it is worth keeping someone when there is a salary cap. A big part of that is who you can replace them with. If you can replace him with someone cheaper, it might might be worth having that extra money to spend somewhere else even if the replacement isn't quite as good. I wouldn't trade him now because Despres, Morrow, etc. aren't ready to carry the load, but at some point they probably will be. If thye never are, then maybe you try harder to keep Letang.

And for the record, I have never suggested to trade Crosby and I wouldn't give Malkin more than $9M/year.

all-pgh, I wouldn't trade Letang at this point though. Maybe, maybe next year if Despres shows he is capable of playing in the top-4 and one of the other guys is ready for the NHL. But at this point, I don't think our defense is strong enough at the NHL level to trade Letang.

I would even sign him to an extension and then trade him after a year or 2. We don't know how everything will play out, but looking at it now, we have help coming on the blueline, but not much outside of Bennett for forwards.

Thinking about it now, one trade chip they could potentially have for this year is Niskanen. I like Niskanen. I think he can play in the top-4, is decent defensively, and above average offensively. Plus he's signed for next year at a reasonable cap hit, but we have seen what teams are willing to give up for puck moving defensemen. With the emergence of Despres and Bortuzzo, maybe they will see what they can get for Niskanen?

He's about the only player I think the Pens could maybe afford to give up that other teams would be interested in because I agree with all-pgh, TK isn't going to get you much.

And of course the Flyers are always interested in anybody that is good, as are the Red Wings. We know the Flyers go after anybody that's a good player. And who have the Wings signed in the past? Shanahan, Coffey, Chelios, Hasek, etc. The Wings are one of the better teams to draft players but they also pick up alot of good FA's. 

And I agree with Pete on the Perry trade. I think the Ducks would trade Bobby Ryan before they would Getzlaf or Perry. Perry is in his prime. He's only 27 years old. Alot of good years still ahead of him. I don't see the Pens bringing Gonchar back either. Malkin won the Hart and Art Ross last year without him. It's not like Malkin needs him anymore to translate either. 

I would hate to see Letang go. But if the Pens like their young defensemen that much, he would probably be the one to trade to get a decent winger for Crosby and put Kunitz back on Malkin's line. If the Pens think another young rookie defenseman is ready to come up next year, I could see them trading Letang. There's alot of young talented defensemen down in Wilkes Barre that will be ready to come up within the next year or two. Of course it would be nice to have some veteran defensemen with all these young defensemen coming up.

Letang is going to be ready to play soon. I heard today that he skated more than Niskanen at practice. so he will be in the lineup before Niskanen gets back and he's not far off from joining the team.

CUP4PENS       

I highly doubt Niskanen will get you Perry, Pete.....Or Bobby Ryan for that matter.. The Pens would have to throw something else in also.

CUP4PENS         

I never said Niskanen would get you Perry. I just said he could be a trade chip for this year.

Gonchar? Really? He sucks at defense and is OLD.

I'm not saying they should bring him back ... I'm not even saying they will.  I just said it wouldn't surprise me ... if the price is right.  It is not just about Gonchar ... a lot of this is about Malkin.  During the lockout, Malkin went over to the KHL, and he chose to play on the same team with Gonchar.  He didn't choose to play with Kovalchuk or Ovechkin or Kovalev or Datsyuk or pick any other Russian player.  The only player that he made it a point to be on the same team with was Gonchar.  That says a lot.

It also tells me that if they want to sign Malkin to a "cap friendly" extension, then it would help if Malkin knew his mentor and what appears to be his best friend in the hockey world were on the club.

Gonchar has also played very well for the Senators last season and through the first part of this season.  He still has some gas left in the tank.  I wouldn't give him $5.5M any more ... but if the price is right, I could see the Pens signing him this offseason.

Perry and/or Getzlaf ain't coming here. Get your heads outta your asses. It's writers trying to get hits on their websites or trying to make a name or have egos they need to feed.

Yep.  The other thing which makes this even more crazy is that the Ducks are 2nd in the West right now.  It looks like they are headed to making a serious run this year.  If they were falling apart on in the bottom of the division, then I could see a shakeup.  But they aren't going to trade Getzlaf or Perry or even Ryan for that matter ... if they are looking at a Cup run.  

Move Letang? Now I have heard it all. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep.  This shouldn't happen.  The only way Letang should leave is if he just flat out refused to re-sign with the Pens, for some reason.  He's the only Norris Trophy candidate the Pens have on the blueline.  And while they have a lot of young guns with a lot of potential, all of those guys are where Letang was 4-5 years ago.  

Plus, trading Letang for a top 6 winger would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Even if you get a 20-30 goal guy in return, you are losing a 60-point defenseman and Norris Trophy candidate.  As a TEAM, you are going to score the same number of goal, and then you are going to have a big hole on the blueline.

Trading Whitney and Goligoski were great deals because those guys simply aren't that good ... Whitney was a healthy scratch again last night, and Gogo is now lost in Dallas.  I was watching the Dallas broadcast last night, and the Stars are trying to figure out what is wrong with Goligoski.  I can answer that for them ... Goligoski is a third-pairing defenseman, and you are paying him and expecting him to play like a top blueliner.  It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Letang ... however ... is the real deal.  You don't give those guys away.

When the Pens let Gonchar walk, Letang was not the Norris caliber defenseman he is today. However, the Pens were able to make a judgement on him and thought that he would be able to replace Gonchar. They were proven right because Letang has flourished. Granted Gonchar was older than Letang will be in a few years, but still, it's about money allocation. If the Pens think Despres or Morrow or whoever can adequately replace Letang and they can use the money to fill another need, I think they would/should do it. Just like they did when they got rid of Gonchar.

In a few years, the Pens will likely have some veteran defensemen similar to Orpik and Martin and if Despres, Morrow, Bortuzzo, Domoulin, etc. turn into the players people think they can, they will have a surplus of defensemen. If you still have a big hole in the top 6 and need to clear cap space, why wouldn't you entertain the idea of trading Letang and his likey cap hit of $6M+ to be able to bring in a guy like Bobby Ryan or Corey Perry?

Even if you get a 20-30 goal guy in return, you are losing a 60-point defenseman and Norris Trophy candidate.  As a TEAM, you are going to score the same number of goal, and then you are going to have a big hole on the blueline.

That's true...if they traded Letang right now. But in a couple of years, maybe Despres and/or Morrow are capable of being 50-point defensemen (and cost $4M less). Then you are sacrificing 10 points from the blueline, but you are replacing Zach Boychuk with someone like Bobby Ryan (plus probaby cap space or other players).
    
I like Letang. I think he is just as good as everybody else does, but if at some point the Pens need to clear cap space, I'm trading Letang before I trade Crosby, Malkin, or Neal. I think at some point you are going to have to decide who to keep, and I would choose the forwards given the long list of talented defensemen and the lack of talented forwards we have in the system. If they can find a way to keep all of them and still fill out a solid team, it's fine by me, but I don't think it will be possible.

One thing that does worry me about Letang though is how physical he plays. It is great for right now, but he's not very big and it has already started ot take a toll on him. He might not be able to remain a 60-point guy if he continues to play the way he does.