Where are all the QUALIFIED black HCs?

If you want to say black people don't get as fair a shot at education, you might have a valid point. But if you spend half the time arguing the NFL is racist because they didn't happen to find a black coach to fill a spot, people will lump everything you said together and treat it all as bullshit********, even if only the NFL part is. I don't understand why you don't understand that it is counterproductive.


jdm, how many times do I have to say that I don't know what went into the hiring of these guys.  I did not say one time that the NFL was racist.  Like I DID say, racism is still a problem in this country and since no black people were hired for these jobs it is worth discussing. 



  

His isn't better than Andy Reid's, and 3 playoff appearances in 8 years isn't enough to put him over the top of the new hot guy. It will get him another job, but not at some huge priority.


I agree about Andey Reid but of the 8 hires his resume was better than 7.    

Freeman's whole job is to get people to read his bullshit******** by making race an issue whenever he can


Not only did he get you to read, he got you to argue about it.  He did his job well I'd say. 


   Also the Rooney rule is awful. It won't get a single extra black coach fired and just wastes everyone's time. 


What it does do is get minorities in from of owners and GMs and give them the chance to get the job that they may not normally have.  It's my understanding that Mike Tomlin wasn't really on the Steelers' radar until he sat down in front of them. 



   

Good post BobbyCrack.  Good argument everyone.  I'm done for the night. 

TampaBayBishop,

I will give you one thing. You seem more civilized and objective than most people, so kudos to you.  

But it isn't worth discussing because there is no evidence racism was involved. When everything becomes a discussion of racism with no evidence, no one listens to any of it. It's that simple, and that's why this discussion is stupid.

Did you seriously say bobbycrack's post was good? That was the dumbest drivel I've read on here.

They're coaching basketball.

Dude, there's a history of white coaches not being successful too.  even more so, there's a history of white coaches who were not successful and still got otehr head coachign jobs.


No ever argued just to hire them based on skin color though.

The whole point here is that NONE of us know what played into the hiring of these guys but you try to act liek you do.


It makes no difference why some coaches are hired over others.  If an organization doesn't want a black head coach or GM and race plays a factor then so what?  The reverse is also true.  This is a non issue.

No other minority in this country has been treated the way black people have.  It's not even the same discussion.  My wife is white and since we've been together her eyes are open to a lot of things that she would have never seen had she not married a black man.  A lot of white people simply have no idea. 

Black people today aren't treated like black people were decades ago, so many of them (like a majority) haven't been treated that way either.  Are you sure the eyes are open to a lot of things or is it really just perception changing falsely?  I'm sure you're not trying to push those beliefs on her at all.  Do you go right to racism everytime a white person is uncomfortable around you, or do you give them the benefit of the doubt that it's not racist until it's obvious?  When one incident happens with a white person are you like "there you go, all white people are like that"? 


Eye opening isn't just something that needs to be done by one ethnicity.  It's often recognizable in the portion of the black population that claims white people do this, white people do that, and then claim white people can't comment on race relations b/c "they" don't lnow what it's like to be the other ethnicity.


I'm for best candidate for the job regardless of race, and believe the NFL owners are going to try to hire the guy that makes them more successful. 


In another note unrelated to your post.  I don't care for Tony Dungy's opinion on these matters.  Last year he claimed he rather have RG III than Luck, b/c he likes athletes (yet Luck is a big athletic guy).  He might as well stop using the word minority also, unless he's going to start lobbying for more representation of Indian and Asian candidates.  

  

I will give you one thing. You seem more civilized and objective than most people, so kudos to you. 



I try to be MikeSyr.  The thing is there are a lot of white people who like to think because some laws have been enacted that racism has been wiped out of this country.  Far from it.  Yes, things are better than the 60s when blacks were still being beaten, hanged, segregated and denied jobs because of their color but now it's more veiled with profiling and voter supression and such things.  A white person who's not racist and doesn't associate with racists won't see it.  I understand that but as a black person it's a lot easier to see when something is going on that won't happen to white people.  Is some of it just paranoia?  Sure it is but that paranoia is warranted.  I mean I know a white guy in his mid 40s who's been arrested for over 30 times for an array of things ranging from battery, drug dealing, driving while intoxocated, false imprisonment, spousal abuse and other things and has spent 1 1/2 years in prison and I know a black guy in his mid 30s who's been arrested 4 times for drug dealing and battery and is doing his second bid for a total of 4 years so far and he has another year to go.  Same state, same court system.  How does that work?  I know that has nothing at all to do with football but it shows the mentality of the country.  Again, I'm not going to sit here and try to argue that things aren't better but things cetainly aren't right.  They aren't equal. 

No ever argued just to hire them based on skin color though.



No one is arguing to hire black coaches just because they are black either.  they are arguing that they should be hired IF they are the best candidate.  It's hard for some people to believe that with 8 head jobs open that there was a black candidate that was qualified.     

It makes no difference why some coaches are hired over others.  If an organization doesn't want a black head coach or GM and race plays a factor then so what?  The reverse is also true.  This is a non issue.


It's a non-issue to you.  That deosn't mean it's not an issue to a lot of people, people of all colors. 



  

Black people today aren't treated like black people were decades ago, so many of them (like a majority) haven't been treated that way either.

That's the point.  You have no idea whether black people are treated fairly and equally.  I doubt that you know a single black person that if you ask them can't point out some clear examples of racism that they have felt personally fairly recently.

Are you sure the eyes are open to a lot of things or is it really just perception changing falsely?


Oh, I'm sure.  There are a lot of movies that we've seen over the last decade, Roots and Rosewood for example, where she asked me is this true, did this kind of stuff really happen?  I told her that these movies aren't just someone's opinions, they are true stories and I'm sure far worse things happened to other people.  She's told me on more than one occassion "no wonder black people hate white people".  Now obviously I don't hate white people but a lot of white people have and still do give black people reasons to hate them. 


   
   I'm sure you're not trying to push those beliefs on her at all.  Do you go right to racism everytime a white person is uncomfortable around you, or do you give them the benefit of the doubt that it's not racist until it's obvious?  When one incident happens with a white person are you like "there you go, all white people are like that"? 


Valid questions.  I don't try to push any beliefs on her.  She has a mind of her own.  She just is a genuinely good person and she mostly didn't associate with people who are clearly racist except for one person.  She really doesn't like him but loves his wife and kids.  As far as white people being uncomfortable around me, I'm light skinned, curly hair, 5'10" 165, I'm not the most impossing figure.  I don't tend to get white people being nervous around me.  I do get subtle things like I was walking in my neighborhood like I do every night and an old white lady was walking toward me on the sidewalk.  I had on a hoody so of course I must be a thug.  She looks around and as I got closer the starts clutching her purse real tight against her chest.  Maybe she would have clutched her purse no matter who was coming but it's hard for me to believe that.  For the record though, not all white people are racist just like not all black people are thugs.  No I don't think "all white people are like that" when a white person does something racist.  I try not to think about racism in every day life at all so giving people the benefit of the doubt usually doesn't come into play.  But I do see things, I've had things said and done to me, so I know that if it's happening to me, light skinned, well spoken, non-threatening me, it is happing to a lot of us.

   Eye opening isn't just something that needs to be done by one ethnicity.  It's often recognizable in the portion of the black population that claims white people do this, white people do that, and then claim white people can't comment on race relations b/c "they" don't lnow what it's like to be the other ethnicity.


You're absolutely right. I know that black people have a long way to go with their racism too.  But you also have to understand that black people don't have the power, white people tend to have the power.  There is a history between our races that simply isn't going to go away for several more generations.  Those of us who don't subscribe to the non-sense have to lead the way.   MLK said not to judge people by the color of their skin but the content of their character and I try to live by that when dealing with anyone from any race.  And you can also trust that I've seen plenty of racism from black people too.  Some black people don't even like light skinned blacks. 

I'm for best candidate for the job regardless of race, and believe the NFL owners are going to try to hire the guy that makes them more successful. 


I think the vast majority of owners will make the decision that's best for their organization but I also believe that there are a few owners what simply would never put a black person in charge of their team no matter how qualified they are.  There are still a lot of white people who simply don't think black people are smart enough, hardworking enough, loyal enough and trustworthy enough to hand over their company to. 

In another note unrelated to your post.  I don't care for Tony Dungy's opinion on these matters.  Last year he claimed he rather have RG III than Luck, b/c he likes athletes (yet Luck is a big athletic guy).  He might as well stop using the word minority also, unless he's going to start lobbying for more representation of Indian and Asian candidates.  


We can agree in that.  I'm tired of hearing from Tony Dungy myself. Seems like every tiem someone says "Tony Dungy said" it's about race.   

So I ask, do you really hate how everything gets turned into a race thing when you're spearheading it so far?

---

What are you talking about? So I am racist because I made this thread? Because I'm calling out Freeman who is a horrible racist writer? Because I'm asking for a black persons persepective on the issue?

Get your head straight man.

I heard on ESPN that there are no minority owners and that is the reason there are so few minority coaches. I call BS. First of all, are you telling me that if the owner from a team thinks a black coach is better then a white coach, but will hire the white coach because he is white? That doesn;t happen. Sorry. Also, what about black GMs? My team, the Giants have Jerry Reese who I must say was a GREAT hire by the Mara and Tische family.

And as far as minority owners, Shad Kahn just bought the Jaguars. He had the choice to hire anyone at the GM spot and chose someone white. Does that mean he hates minoritys?

I just feel this race card is over played now a days. Yes, there is racism in the world and its a shame, but that is not the reason there aren't as many minorities in the NFL coaching.

Do you see what an idiot you look like right now?

mikesyr asks this, but says this at the beginning of the thread: 

say they just pack up their crap and go back to where they came from

Does he seriously not see what he said is beyond idiotic?

And a great response from TBB:

Black people will go back to Africa when white people go back to Europe. No one is from here except of course those of us with Native blood and that's even open for debate.

Priceless. 

TBB, you and I have different views on things relating to ND/scUM, but have read this entire thread and I must say a job well done to you.  You've stayed very civil in this whole matter even when asinine comments were made like the one above.  Love your witty comebacks as well.

One more thing to add, although your last post shows your perspective is pretty reasonable, but white people aren't the only ones who can be racist. I have never judged someone for their skin, and although I probably have more white friends than black ones, I have a fair amount of both and am exposed to more white people in my daily life. Most are reasonable people, but I have met people of both races who judge people based on their skin. One of the bigger differences I have seen, though, is white people don't have the "race card" to pull. I have a friend who has gotten in trouble for fights, selling weed, being involved of stealing shit**** (it was stealing it back but would have still got him in trouble) and he used the race card every time and got out of all of it. He's a great friend, and I'm happy he's gotten out of some of what he got out of, but I wouldn't be able to pull that off. Does overuse of that cancel out decades of abuse? No, but if people's goal is truly for everyone to be treated equally, they need to let that go except in situations where it actually is a factor. Otherwise it draws attention to people's race where maybe it was never thought about, draws attention away from actual inequality, and in some cases perpetuates racism because people see someone taking advantage of their race, and think they need to "balance it out" or something, even subconsciously. Should rational people act like that? No, but rational people should also see why trying to use your race to your advantage is harmful.

Point of fact: There was at least one WHITE qualified guy that didn't get looked at either - Mike Zimmer, DC of the Bengals. He's done a great job in Cincy and is the key to their success, yet no one called him. Can you name me one minority DC or OC that's done a better job and should have gotten a look over him?