The best teams...

What has been proven in recent years is teams with solid or elite passing games can win even without stellar defences..



Let me say, I misread that, you actually can overcome a bad defensive effort with an elite passing game, doesn't happen alot but it does happen. My apologies.


Peace...

This is fun.

I will go back to my original remark, how have they changed? All of a sudden they were a better passing team and that's why they are in the Super Bowl? Flacco the last four seasons

2009 : 3613 yards 21 td's 63.1 comp %
2010 : 3622 yards 25 td's 62.6 comp %
2011 : 3610 yards 20 td's 57.6 comp %
2012 : 3817 yards 22 td's 59.7 comp %

Where is this transformation that occured with the Ravens passing game that got them to the Super Bowl?

Ok...I'll play......Those stats are nice but they don't show the whole picture and really this 2012 play offs has. The Ravens have had a solid defence for awhile ...2009 - 2011 they gave up 261...270...266 points for the year ...without even looking I'd guess they even had better years than those prior.  In 2012 they gave up 344 points for the season, a huge difference yet they have gone further than any other season. WHY ????  Well one reason is thier ability to go deep and go there fast when they need to...they have shown that the entire play offs...unlike our QB Ponder or the others like him that throw the ball a couple yards at a time. In 2009 Rice, who is one of the best catching RB's and explossive caught 78 passes for 702 yards. The most on the team for receptions....

Rice   78 rec    702 yrds   1td
Mason 73       1028         7
Heap  53         593          6
clayton  34      480           2

Mason was a solid WR but not great by any means but your 2nd highest WR had far less yards than your RB and TE...The numbers look good but teams can cover deep with this WR pairing.

Looking at 2012

Boldin   65 rec  921 yards   4 TD
Pitta     61        669           7
Rice      61       478            1
Smith    49       855            8

In 2009 Mason and Clayton had 112 rec  for 1508 yards
In 2012 Boldin and Smith had 114 rec for 1776 yards

Having 2 solid recieving threats and one really explossive one changes how a defence defends you...they also have J. Jones who is a speedster and caughtr that huge TD late in the game against the Broncos. They now have the ability to move the ball deep and quickly down the field when they need to....and with this years defence being less than normal they ned to on occassion.

We can discuss this all day long but lets be real if Ponder was the QB in Baltimore or San Fran for that matter niether team is in the Super Bowl. Put Kaep, Wilson, RG3 or even Flacco on the Vikings and we may have made a run at it...


Gosh, thats not how I remember it, I remember you saying this is a passing league now and to have a chance you have to be a passing team.

I did say it is a passing league now.....just staing what everyone else has said and the obvious......One doesn't ahve to be pass happy but as long as you put more points up than the other team you win right??? 

Add and QB like the ones mentioned above another 2 recieving threats and I'd take that no problem.



Did I mention how much fun i'm having? It's about score huh? Well damn I hadn't thought of that one.  It might also be about lack of scoring, The Falcons and Patriots are watching the Super Bowl at home because two very good defenses stopped them from scoring a single point in the 2nd half of the conference championship games. Guess the elite passing teams don't always win.

Incase you missed it Nos....during the regular season the Pats gave up less points than the Ravens did and the Broncos gave up less points than the Ravens did too......what was that remark about defensive teams again ???

The Seahawks had the best defence scoring wise and they are home too ...they actually has more points scoring and less points against then than the Ravens did.....again...why is that.

I don't want to talk about Ray Lewis and being injured...come on, you know who many injuries teams have had this past season. That game against the Pats Talib and anothe CB got hurt......The replacement for Talib had no answer for Boldin.

You may like to have a well balanced team and that's fine but if you had to pick one of the three ...Run, Pass or defence that you were going to be average in or just below and still have a shot at a super bowl which one would be the most important out of the three to get you there ???? 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/p
ost/_/id/71506/firing-of-cameron-wa
s-a-brilliant-move

This is nice article about the firing of Cameron and it used the Pats game and Caldwells play calling in the second half as to the why the Ravens were able to win that game.

Well this has been an entertaining read. Different opinions on how things to get done in the NFL and the options to get there. I think it is really hard to say one way or the other is the "right" way but I tend to side with the balanced offense lead by a strong running game backed up by a solid defense.

Think about it, erase the stupid fumbles on punts in last year's NFC Championship and SF plays in the Super Bowl two years in a row. Yes, that SF team that couldn't throw a year ago. I'll have to say it sure looks like they upgraded with Kaepernick but I'm not sure they wouldn't have gotten there with Smith. A little less likely maybe but Smith was playing just fine before he got hurt.

And as much as I love the Ravens as my AFC team, they shouldn't have even been in the Championship game to begin with. That 70 yarder to force OT in Denver was ridiculous. Great throw and catch but I don't know how the Denver defenders blew that play. Go stand on the 10 yard line and come back to the ball with 30 seconds left. Horrible play.

And in watching a lot of the Ravens season, they really struggled when they tried to really feature the pass at all costs. When they figured out they needed a little more balance, things got better. And they were banged up on D all year but managed most of the time to keep teams out of the endzone and make 'em settle for FGs.

So...regardless of what any of us think, the Vikes organization looks to be building to go balanced featuring a physical running game and it looks like they are shaping their D to be physical, keying on stopping the run first. Now I have a lot of respect for our friends to the east, particularly their QB and WRs. But that's it. Their defense is god-awful and it sounds like they aren't going to do much to change that. Yes, they had injuries but they were mostly back against SF and they got embarassed just like the Vikes would have done had Ponder played again. And they can't run consistently because they have a line that focuses on pass blocking and just can't find a decent RB to last a full season. Maybe they can fix that but I hope they can't.

As for the Vikes, I think playing to their strengths is the best bet. The o-line struggled at the start but really came together over the year and it showed in opening up lanes for AP even with little threat of pass. But that started to finally change late in the season when they did take some shots down the field and more importantly, always seemed to be in manageable third down situations more often than not. And then Ponder started throwing on time, hitting receivers where they were supposed to be coming out of breaks instead of waiting until they were open. Big difference. The first half against the Texans and the whole game against GB. Copy those and continue and this team has a shot if they add just one big threat at WR and keep adding to the D. Harvin will be back and even Jarius Wright is a nice option too. Again, get that big prototype WR in the draft and things will open up through the air and on the ground.

I'm not sure if Ponder is the answer and would like to see them bring a vet in but we can't give up too much to do so. Maybe a late round QB instead. Not sure. I just don't want to see them blow picks or big bucks for unproven guys like Flynn or Smith. I just don't see Smith as a major upgrade to Ponder. I'd hate to see the Vikes waste cap space on him. Go get a WR and then go all defense in the draft. Bring in a bunch of guys who are fast and love to hit. Greenway, Everson Griffen, Robison and Harrison Smith are those types of guys. Get more of them.

Things are looking up. This is a young team that just had a taste of success. Keep rolling. 

point is do you think ponder can take us to a SB?

Best answer I can give is maybe. Give him a solid prototypical WR and add a couple of players (DB and LB) on the defensive side and I think it is possible. That is where the organization is headed. If he proves he can't make the plays with that added to the best RB in the game and a solid line, time to head in a different direction. I saw some good things in the last four games that makes me think it is possible. I wouldn't bet my paycheck on it but when you add up this up from the financial side, that's what they'll do and we'll see.

Well if Joe Flaccoe can...

joe flaccoe and c ponder is like night and day... i dont know what your trying to say?

Joe Flacco is a very very good QB.  But he also has a complete supporting cast when it comes to RB, OLine, and WR.  Let's face it.  Our recievers were probably the worst corp this league has seen since the 2011 Vikin... In the last 10 years.  

point is do you think ponder can take us to a SB?

I think this is a very legitimate question.  Wish we had the WRs so we could REALLY tell if it's just him not adapting to the NFL level. 

off topic but talking bout the Ravens... 5 10 years down the road i bet we find out Ray Lewis took steroids!! lolololololol

I was not a fan of Flacco when he first came out but you have to give him some props for his performance in the play offs. Yes he has the weapons but when they finally opened up the offence he rewarded them with solid play along with his WR's. The difference with Flacco is he can make all the throws and he has a cannon for an arm...his biggest concerns in years past was handling pressure IMO and making some really stupid choices. So when someone asks if Ponder can take us to the super Bowl ??? Right now solely based on his performances  the answer is no and he's not even close. We need more weapons but Ponder doesn't have the zip on his ball to make all the throws needed to be successful on a regular basis. Our red zone offence throwing the ball is awful and accuracy on deep throws in not there...he's probably one of the worst in the league. Our offence with Ponder does not have the ability to move down the field quickly if needed....we can't fall behind like the Ravens did and realistically expect to come back.

We keep saying the same stuff about Ponder but he is not a leader and does not have the ability to be the difference maker on this team. For use to get to the Super Bowl it's be AD, Harvin, Walsh, the O-Line, Defence, special teams that'll lead us there.......Unless Ponder gets an Arm and some accuracy to go with it he'll just be sitting in the back of the wagon coming along for the ride.

One analyst was asked why the Ravens and 49ers were in the Super Bowl and he list a couple of interesting stats about the QB's for both teams as big reasons why......

On passes thrown 20 or more yards down field.......

Kaepernick lead the league in completion %, yards per attempt and total QBR.

Flacco lead the league in attempts, completions, TD-int differential

It's funny.....they didn't have the top rated defences, top RB's , but the best teams could sure throw the deep ball.

"See!?   SEE?!?!?!?!"

It's funny.....they didn't have the top rated defences, top RB's , but the best teams could sure throw the deep ball.


That is funny, ya know what else is funny?


Both teams ranked 15th or lower in Passing yards, passing td's and pass attempts. But I guess since they had a few paases go for long gains they are passing teams.


Peace...

But I guess since they had a few paases go for long gains they are passing teams.

Nope.....it just means it's a big reason why they made it all the way to the Super Bowl......Anorther guess is there teams weren"t  down huge in alot of games during the regular season that they didn't need to pass alot. It does show that when they did need to go deep they were some of the best at it.

Or it could mean they aren't passing teams and the reason they are in the Super Bowl is because their defenses pitched a 2nd half shutout in the conference championship games.

Let's just agree hutch this conversation is getting old, facts are as I have said all along you don't have to be a passing team to win in the NFL and i've proved it, let's move on shall we?


Peace...

Nos i agree you dont have to be a passing team to make it to the superbowl! but youve got to have a good enough QB that can get you back in the game if you fall behind a few scores and both thos QBs did just that! Do you think ponder can do that? i ask you?