Upton adios... hate to say it but...

You guys know I've been on this board for several years now and I freely admit to being wrong as much as I've been right. But in this case... I told you guys last year one of the Dback Coaches in the organization who is a golfing buddy of mine had told me all of the Owenership and all of the Coaches (most definitely Kirk Gibson) all viewed Justin Upton as a Clubhouse cancer that had to go. Those were his words not mine.  

Ok big deal... so I was right about this one... but this is still giant loss for us at the same time. Why? If the Delgado kid is all we got for hiom then we simply gave him away and that makes no sense.

I'm probably wrong about this but... would you guys somewhat agree that with all of the moves Kevin Towers has made in the last two seasons... if 2013 doesn't end up being a contending year or at the very least a well above .500 year... he's adios? 

I'm not sure what's happened to Towers. I thought the first year he was here the moves he made were fantastic. Getting Kubel and Cahill to add to a team coming off a playoff year with the core in tact seemed just the right touch.

Since then, he's been a complete disaster. I agree, unless the Snakes are true contenders this year, he has to go.

The Seattle deal was incredible, but ended up backfiring. The Braves deal basically sucks. I like Martin Prado, but he's only here for one year. The rest of the "prospects" are just throwaways. Delgado shouldn't even start if the rotation is healthy so not sure what they plan to do with him.

Excellent deal for the Dbacks. Not only do they rid themselves of an overrated and overpaid cancer they get Prado in return who is both a better hitter and defender than Upton with far more versatility plus two of Atlanta's top prospects. I knew, like everyone, that a deal would get done and that when it did the Dbacks would come out ahead but not to this extent. Kudos to Towers. 

AZ could have done better....but the D'Backs dragged this Upton thing out so long, that he lost some value.

Regardless....Upton had to go. This team may be better just by the fact that Upton isn't there any longer. Prado is not a superstar, but they need to extend his contract to make this trade look good.

As for Towers, he did not handle the Upton situation well. But that is hindsight. AZ will have trouble getting past LA and SF this season - with or without Upton. All it will take is for one of those prospects to bust out and he will look like a genius.

As for getting rid Towers....compared with the last GM and his flunkies....he has no worries.

Yikes, 67Redsox has come over to the Dbacks board. This means it's time for corrections:

"I know...that a deal would get done and that when it did the Dbacks would come out ahead..." Just like I knew the Ravens and 49ers would be in the Super Bowl this year. And that the Coyotes would win last night with 3 third period goals. And that the Suns would win in Linsey Hunter's debut. And...you see the silliness. If you want credit for predicting something, put it in print prior to the thing happening.

Also, "like everyone"...um, yeah, everyone in the world was not confident Towers, at this point, would pull off a major haul esp after the Seattle debacle. Reasons are kind of obvious, but read through the threads here if you need more elaboration.

The assumption that the Dbacks made out in this one is obviously debatable.

Upton isn't overpaid. In fact, one of the draws is his contract still has years remaining at a relatively cheap price. "Over-rated?" Perhaps. But a lot of teams still believe he hasn't hit his ceiling yet...hence, the interest all over the league.

Prado is a better hitter for average than Upton. That's it. When playing the outfield, they are pretty similar defensively. Kind of hard to compare defensive abilities between OFs and IFs.

Ok big deal... so I was right about this one... but this is still giant loss for us at the same time. Why? If the Delgado kid is all we got for hiom then we simply gave him away and that makes no sense.

I'm probably wrong about this but... would you guys somewhat agree that with all of the moves Kevin Towers has made in the last two seasons... if 2013 doesn't end up being a contending year or at the very least a well above .500 year... he's adios? 

I posted this on another thread, and I repost it here just because I think it directly relates to your question.

Paul Goldschmidt  2012 | .286AVG | 18SB | 82RBI | 20HR | 514AB | 25yr.old
Jason Kubel        2012 | .253AVG | .506SLG | 90RBI | 30HR | 30yr.old
Martin Prado       2012 | .301AVG | 17SB | 69SO (not high) | 70RBI | 10HR | 617AB | Does it all | 29yr.old
Miguel Montero   2012 | .286AVG | .391OBP | 88RBI | 15HR | .850OPS | Amoung best def. | 30yr.old
Aaron Hill            2012 | .302AVG | .522SLG | 14SB | 85RBI | 26HR | 609AB | Great Defender | 30yr.old
Cody Ross           2012 | .267AVG | .807OPS | 81RBI | 22HR | 130G | Plays solid defense | 32yr.old
Wade Miley              2012 | 16W 11L | 3.33ERA | 144SO | 194.2INN | 193H | 37BB | 26yr.old
Brandon McCarthy     2012 | 8W 6L | 3.24ERA | 73SO | 111INN | 115H | 24BB | 30yr.old
Ian Kennedy            2012 | 15W 12L | 4.02ERA | 187SO | 208.1INN | 216H | 55BB | 28yr.old
Trevor Cahill            2012 | 13W 12L | 3.78ERA | 156SO | 200INN | 184H | 74BB | 25yr.old

We'll get a chance to see what Adam Eaton does.  I think Matt Williams and Kirk Gibson think Paul Goldschmidt has all the makings of a star.  With the promise shown by the young pitchers and Montero to handle them behind the plate, I sure wouldn't bet against them.  Parra will contribute as well.  I think they are going to fly under the radar this season, with all eyes on the Giants and Dodgers.

The young players they got in the trade could have some potential:

Randall Delgado is 23 years old and was one of the Braves best pitching prospects.  He started 17 games for the Braves last year with a 4.37 ERA in 92 and two-third innings. In 2011, he had a 2.83 ERA in 35 innings. 

Nick Ahmed had the best glove at SS and was the fastest runner in the Carolina League.  He is ranked number 10 amoung prospects in the Braves organization.  

Zeke Spruill has good control and is the number 6 prospect in the Atlanta organization. He is 23 years old, is 6-foot-5 and has been compared to Derek Lowe. Spruill stared 27 games for the Mississippi Braves in Double-A, and had a 3.67 ERA, 161 1/3 INN,  106 K's and 46 walks

Brandon Drury was ranked the #2 prospect in the Appalachian League just 2 years ago.  He's ranked 13 amoung prospects in the Atlanta organization. 

What should be encouraging is that  Kevin Towers stated that he was not going to trade Justin Upton until the Braves added 2 players to the deal.  That said, he saw somebody he liked, and I tend to think we are going to have to wait and see who those guys were that he thinks made the trade worth it.

I like Martin Prado a lot.  Some people say Martin Prado is the most "underrated" player in Baseball.  I really like his consistancy, and that is consitantly good mind you, at a very shallow position (3B) when you look across the league.  He's been described as a clutch player and a great guy in the clubhouse.  Martin Prado is one of the better hitting third base options in baseball and he can play the outfield as well.  He generally hits for a higher AVG and strikes out half as often as Justin Upton.

Justin Upton had some good, but "streaky" production, like a lot of guys that strike out more often.  I don't think AZ needs more guys like that than they already have.  Some young players show these big variations in production, and eventually it gets a bit more consistant.  Other players, just continue the "disappearing act" their whole careers, like somebody who might be a good reference.. his brother B.J. Upton.  Over the coarse of a season their numbers look great, but they can just not show up for a series at all.  I'm not saying these guys aren't good.  I'm saying Martin Prado brings something different to the table. 

I think Martin Prado will be the anchor the team had been missing and I really like what Kevin Towers is doing to provide some consistency that will enable them to compete in every single game.  This is a team built to compete this year and in following years to come.

I hear Kevin Towers anticipates signing Martin Prado to a 3-4 year contract potentially as early as this week.  Only then will I sign off on the deal as a great trade for the D-Backs.  I think Martin Prado's consistancy, situational hitting and all of the game winning skills that don't show up on sports center are what many people ignore in this deal.  If the Snakes sign Prado to a 3-4 year deal, I predict that Kevin Towers' plan to surpise the division will play out for everyone to see.

Well, bonadrag75 I see you blow as much hot air on this Board as you do elsewhere. I see you haven't changed at all...still feel threatened by anyone who happens to disagree with you. I'll have to visit more often...it'll be fun yanking your chain. 

I really dont wanna break down this trade again..But the Dbacks did do pretty well..could they have done better? Yes of course.. i do think yes the seattle trade would have been better..but that wasnt Towers fault it didnt happen. Justin could have said yes and it would have happened..Honestly if Justin would go to Seattle and have a good year Seattle could be a pretty good team. Just another reason why i think Justin will be a bust. hes NOT confident even in HIMSELF!

OJ: Good point about Upton's confidence, but don't you think Towers takes some fault for the Seattle deal? He knew about the no-trade clause and could have easily spoken to Upton/his agent about whether he'd even go there before getting a deal done and having its failure eventually go public. It was such a good deal though I guess he figured he'd get it done and then just hope Upton caved.

FlagrantFoul: Good points as well. I'm willing to withhold ultimate judgment on Towers and see how this year plays out. I like the addition of McCarthy. The rotation could be great. The bullpen could be great. And as we've seen in SF, if all that happens, you don't necessarily need an elite lineup at the plate.

Y'all got some of our best prospects,in the deal i didn't want to give up Pardo,he's better than Johnson that we got from the D-BACKS

I'm willing to withhold ultimate judgment on Towers and see how this year plays out

This comment only a few days after stating he's been a complete disaster.  I guess that's what you call talking out of both sides of your mouth. 

This comment only a few days after stating he's been a complete disaster.  I guess that's what you call talking out of both sides of your mouth. 

Changing one's views is a mark of a person that is able to educate his or herself, gathering new facts and perspectives.  This forum is a good place to "talk out of both sides of your mouth" and learn which side makes the most sense.

One's state of mind can also affect his or her outlook on things and AZ fans were a bit shell-shocked in the initial days following the trade.  I would expect a bit of time would be required before they gathered themselves to understand the ins and outs of the deal.

FlagrantFoul: You should come over to our boards more often. Nice to have extra people to have intelligent convo with.

67RedSox: Not sure why I'm breaking this down for you, but if it can help your intellectual development at all, it's worth it. We all tried to ignore your last angry post but you apparently won't be satisfied until you get some attention:

I still think the way Towers handled the Upton scenario was a complete disaster. It was sloppy and ended up devaluing Upton in the long run. Many feel the same way I do. You probably don't listen to AZ sports radio, but I could cite a few guys there as well.

That said, I was shell-shocked right after the trade and after further evaluation (and reading up on some of the posts from guys adding constructive info to the issue), I could retract a bit and at least be open about it. Still cynical, but willing to give it a shot as a fan.

Anyhow, I'm done responding to you! The AZ board has always been pretty civil and fun. I know you as a troll in other boards. I'd never tell anyone to take their comments to another board (we all have a right to free speech), but I don't think we'd be upset if you decided not to grace us with your presence again :)

Wow... bonadrag droppin' the hammer on 67RedSox...Boom! Truly lmao. Upon further reflection I too have to come clean about reevaluating this trade as Prado is a very good player and may even grow into a GREAT player. Either way... he's darn sure not going to strike out 175 to 200 times like virtually every other 3rd Baseman we've run out there since the retirement of Matt Williams. Hence he's a huge...HUGE improvement for us at that position. However, other than Prado (at least at this point) I don't believe we got much of anything else in IMMEDIATE value. Prospects are prospects...some make it to the show but... most don't.

Pitchers and Catchers reporting is right around the corner and I love it. Really fired up about seeing our new players in CF, RF, 3B and SS and anxious to see Adam Eaton in CF a full season... along with the battles in LF between Kubel / Parra. (Still don't get the demotion of a Gold Glove winner and .290 season.) More importantly I'm anxious to see if there's a NEW ATTITUDE with the departures of CY and J-Up. Is this Goldschmidts(sp?) "time" this year? We'll see.

Cautiously optimistic is all I can say about this off season because... come the All Star Break...  we'll all know how Kevin Towers did this off season and if we're not "in the hunt" this is all bulljunk. 

Just locked up Prado for four years...reason for more optimism about the trade. One of the big initial flaws was the best guy you were getting potentially only being here for a year...so, props to Towers on extending him.

Well, it's good to see you coming to your senses bonadrag75. Next time I hope it doesn't take me to make you do that.

The more I see this team take on the personality of Gibson the more successful they're going to be.

Hate to say it hte Mariner's package was a bit better. 
Not very often a player of JUp10's talent becomes available in his prime too.
I think it was one of those work for both sides kind of deal.  I mean we get JUp for 3 years its not like we lost the deal.   Even if Delgado and Ahmed turns into osmething special it could be one of these deals like Boston/Florida made worked for both teams. 

Problem is... Seattle was on his No Trade list. 

Upton should have a pretty good season in Atlanta, but I think Prado is a much better fit long term for Arizona than Upton.