How you doin'...?

This is an off-season thread for you to bitch, brag, talk about whatever you'd like, not related to the Bears.

 

Question - if your credit cards were maxed out, your house was worth less than what you paid, and you owed debts to friends for years, would you just try to get your credit line increased or would you try to cut back on spending?

Just askin'. 

Well, given your scenario, I'd assume that option A wouldn't be available, you probably couldn't get your credit line increased.  And then there is option C.  Pay down your credit cards and pay off your friends.

Well, given your scenario, I'd assume that option A wouldn't be available, you probably couldn't get your credit line increased.  And then there is option C.  Pay down your credit cards and pay off your friends.

So, you're saying that I should stop borrowing money that I don't have, don't increase my credit line, and stop giving money to "friends" that I'll never see a dime from?

Hmm.  Seems like good advice to me.    

Here's one to bake your noodle.
Cost of College... Every college you pay by "credit hour" it costs x amount of money per credit hour- It doesn't matter what courses you're taking or what your degree is when you finish. (basket weaving 101 costs the same as Theoritcal Physics 503- But I'm guessing the TP class is going to be much more difficult- just a hunch.)

SO hypothetical: (ok not really hyopothetical) Teaching Degree- If you want to be a teacher you need this. When hired as a teacher they don't give a sh!t what school you went to or anything- just Do you have a degree and certification to teach the subject we need? Yep- ok. THAT'S it!
So you have two people- (I'm just focusing on cost of college here) BOTH go to the SAME College:

Engineer- Graduates from school- get's a job- earns $50,000- Owes $40,000 in student loans. (spends 10 years in his job, get's raises and after ten years- is earning $70,000) Student loans are easily paid off. Has bought a house and thinking about starting a family.

Teacher- Graduates from school- get's a job- earns $28,000- Owes the same $40,000 in student loans. (spends 10 years in his job, get's raises and after ten years- is earning- $34,000- because he is stuck on the BA pay scale that doesn't increase Crap!- and is told- "hey if you want to make more money, you need to get your masters degree. you can earn an additional 3 grand a year! whoopee! FOR DOING THE EXACT SAME JOB!!! (and will cost you an additional 10+ grand added to you student loans btw) This guy is still working as a bartender on nights and weekends just so he can afford a Bears game once a year, a night out with his girl, or a new xbox game every 6 months.

My point- I think college should base the cost of tuition on the degree earned. Want to be a teacher? Great- That will cost you $10,000 want to be an engineer? Ok- that will cost you $40,000....or whatever. (and of course if you want really high paying jobs, you are going to have to get that masters or doctorate, or law degree- but those professions are also compensated accordingly)

My logic is simple- If you go to a restaurant and you order
A cheesburger and fries- it costs- $9.00
A steak and potato- $16.00  
As it should- Steak is better then a cheesburger... If your like me you're going to be more satified... even though it's the same restaurant!

A restaurant isn't going to charge you the same price- for different items- why would college?
It's like having everything on the menu cost the same- burger, steak, lobster, cobb salad- each cost $40,000
But the difference between a burger and lobster is huge! The difference between earning potential in Engineer and teacher is huge!

ALSO- private colleges- are insane!! And with the exception of some- depending on the degree- it doesn't mean crap that you went there...
I would think a Law Degree from Harvard or Yale is going to give you a leg up on the job market when interviewing... BUT
a Teaching degree from little known "Podunk University"- (that costs 3-4x's as much then Illinois State) won't give you Squat when interviewing for a teaching job. THEY don't care. Do you have a degree? Are you Certified- Yep... That's it! There is no..."Oh you went there! Impressive! We are going to hire you, instead of that State school kid")

I think this would have people chose different professions- I know for a fact that we (as teachers) have lost so many good ones because of the cost of education- and the lack of compensation.

I love my job and wanted to be a teacher, but it just doesn't make much sense to me is all. AND I work my ass off.

Ok I'm done venting... (I have nothing against Engineers or even know how much they make- they are just an example I came up with- sorry if I offended anyone)

And truth is I would still have chosen Teacher- Just wish I didn't have all this student loan crap.

You want some truth- I'm in my 8th year of teaching- 8 Freaking years (BA+ masters)
My take home pay is: 2400 a month- after taxes and health insurance, union dues... $28,800 a year take home... (sad I know)
My student loans cost me $323 a month... yep

When I finished my masters degree (while still teaching) my paycheck went up- A whooping $23. (finished my maseters at the end of a semester, christmas time- school district said I had to wait and apply for pay increase at the start of the next school year, because I was already under contract)

ahhh... I feel better. Thanks for reading.

Teachers are criminally underpaid and undervalued...

I feel for ya, man.

Question - if your credit cards were maxed out, your house was worth less than what you paid, and you owed debts to friends for years, would you just try to get your credit line increased or would you try to cut back on spending?

Why not just print your own money?

Trick question, he is talking about our Government. I cant talk politics, my head will explode.

I have gone from owning a business that grossed 1.8 million a year. After expenses and taxes I net'd $150,000 salary.  I employed 15 full time employees.  When the housing market tanked I couldn't find anyone to buy the homes we built.  I started taking on government work where you bid against 30 other contractors trying to low ball the bid just to keep their crews working even though often you lose money on the job.  

Soon I was at 7 employees, by 2010 I shut the doors, filed bankruptcy, lost my house and live in a rental.  I have had the largest helping of humble pie ever.   And I can relate my man.   

Dimmn, I agree the collegiate system is a bit out of whack, but there are a lot of problems there in general.  Enrollments are down so financially a lot of Universities are struggling anyway.  If you cut the cost to certain degrees, in order to keep things balanced, you either have to:

1) Raise the price of the "engineering" degree (or other degrees) to make up the difference (in your example, each were 40k, so if the teaching were lowered to 10k, the engineering would now be 70k, just to break even).
2) Cut salaries.  In the case you suggest, it would make sense to cut salaries of the professors in the teaching college, your fellow teachers, since their degree is the one now cheaper.  Much like part of the reason certain foods are cheaper is because the food itself costs less.  Hamburger is cheaper than Lobster.
3) Do both.

What sucks for teachers is it depends on where you teach.  Teachers in say, Naperville, are paid much better (I have some friends, I believe it's 70-90k / yr there).

And then there are those who would argue the point of being college educated is to be...educated, not as job training.  That's what vocational schools are for.  Private schools "supposedly" offer better education, so when you graduate you'd be a better teacher.  And if all was fair in the world, in the interview it would come out what would make you a better teacher.  But all is not fair in the world.

As to Bear man's question, there is an option missing (and it's one that Suze Orman advocates, though I laughed when I heard it).  Get a new job and make more money, or get a second job.  As Suze Orman said, "you need more capital".  If your credit cards are too high and your mortgage is overwhelming, there's only so much you can cut before you just need to make more to pay off the debt + interest.  I laughed because I think it's probably easier said than done, "oh, just make more money?  No PROBLEM!"

Of course, if this is just a metaphor for the govt., well, it's easy for them to make more money, it's just not something people like.  And hey, maybe the solution is to both make more money AND reduce spending.  The problem is, no one can agree where the extra money comes from, and what should be cut.

I really, REALLY hate politics.

Senior in college staring graduation in the face with no job currently lined up. Was convinced by my parents that going to a smaller private school was worth it before I completely understood just how big of an impact that debt would have on my life. Parents told me they would pay half my tuition when it was all said and done so I committed... 2 and a half years into it my parents come to me saying they wont be able to help with even one cent of the debt...


Im not mad at my parents... I understand what happened and I am thankful that I will still have a place to crash at night free of rent if it comes to that. But it still sucks knowing that virtually the rest of my life is going to be tied down by an $80,000 loan. In the end its my fault, but I just was not mature enough when i was 17 applying for schools. 

Couple of things Go Bears.

Unless things have changed greatly--and I admit they might have--your student loans don't start incurring interest until you have been out of school. 
The simple solution is to just not leave school.  Take 1 class for the rest of your life.  They cannot garnish social security.  Small community colleges are not to expensive and one credit hour classes won't be to bad. 

or

Take one class for a bit to stop the interest from compounding the problem.  Take a portion of your income and put it into safe investments (CD), and roll investment while adding to it till you have enough to take a large bite out of the loan.

The exact numbers and time will depend on interest rate, cost of classes, and amount you can put away.  You can just run the numbers and see what makes the most sense and where the thresholds are. 

or

Go to graduate school.  Push your education as far as you can and just hope that when you leave school you will be able to cash in with a better job and that the cost will be dwarfed by the benefit.

Ultimately though the job market is not great and what this country really needs is those damn baby boomers to either retire or die.  Once they are out of the picture it will allow people to move up the ladder and that will open up more positions for the younger generation.  The problem is that many of them were horrible with their finances and they are going to have to work much longer than they should have. 

Unless things have changed greatly--and I admit they might have--your student loans don't start incurring interest until you have been out of school. 

This 100% depends on the type of loan.  There are subsidized and unsubsidized loans.  The former are the kind you're thinking of, interest is not accrued while in school.  Plus I believe they require you to be a full time student, but I could be wrong.  The latter interest still accrues while in school.  BUT, for both, you do not have to pay on the loans while in school (again, might have to be a full time student).

I graduated back in '03, so it's possible things have changed, but that's how my stuff went.

I think it is you have to have been out of school for 6 months and it does not matter if you are full or part time. 

Senior in college staring graduation in the face with no job currently lined up. Was convinced by my parents that going to a smaller private school was worth it before I completely understood just how big of an impact that debt would have on my life. Parents told me they would pay half my tuition when it was all said and done so I committed... 2 and a half years into it my parents come to me saying they wont be able to help with even one cent of the debt...


Im not mad at my parents... I understand what happened and I am thankful that I will still have a place to crash at night free of rent if it comes to that. But it still sucks knowing that virtually the rest of my life is going to be tied down by an $80,000 loan. In the end its my fault, but I just was not mature enough when i was 17 applying for schools. 

The loan isn't unfair. It is actually cheap over a lifetime. The stupidity of what is going on is the United States DEBT and the state of the economy itself. If the economy was booming or even stable, jobs would be available and the loans you have now would be repaid quickly. Unfortunately noone in power in government really gives two cents about the anyone but themselves. WHen people do achieve success in business, they become villified as being selfish.

They had a special on this last week-end about Washington DC. DId you know that in the Washington DC suburbs are five of the top 13 wealthiest in the country. More top quality wine is sold, more limosine services, etc, etc.  Yet it is the same politicians and lobbyists who bitch and moan about people who work 16 hours a day trying to make their small business make money. Everytime I hear a politician talk about the need to support the "middle class" a giant lie siren should erupt. They do not want a middle class. They want a proliteriate controlled by Washington. We  are actually Rome. Nero is now named Obama and his fiddle is Congress.

My youngest is paying off his student loans but fortunately has had a decent job since graduation. My advice to you is to try and find an internship and work for a company. It would be good experience and may also land a job for you out of college. Also companies do look for college students who have shown a work history during college. Also, do not be too selective about wanting a particular company or even industry. Truth is that most college students do not have a clue about what a career is all about while in school. It isn't a diss what I am saying but your first job out is probably not where you are going to end up unless you are in a pretty specific major(Dr., Lawyer, Scientist, etc).

A good buddy of mine retired as a plant engineer and is now working at the University of Cincy basically trying to help engineering students find jobs when they graduate. He also runs the Coop program for engineers. He talks to me all of the time about how tough things are  for college grads. All I can tell you is to work your butt off to find a job. Then once you have one understand that it will be hard work that will make or break you. A career is all about competition. Everyone in your peer group wants to get ahead. You need to be better than they are. It will be a tough slog because you will run into some pretty tough roadblocks along the way. Try and find a mentor for yourself or several of them. Find people along the way that you admire for some ability of theirs and try to add that particular talent or talents to your resume. Don't trust a whole bunch of people along the way. Find a few good ones that have your back and that you can count on for advice. Don't cover things up when you screw up. Be honest and be straight with your superiors and don't be afraid to ask questions or admit that you do not know something when you don't

In this economy right now, the strong can and will survive. They always have and always will. You just have to realize that noone in government gives a toot about you or your family. Good luck to you and yours.

 

 

Ultimately though the job market is not great and what this country really needs is those damn baby boomers to either retire or die.  Once they are out of the picture it will allow people to move up the ladder and that will open up more positions for the younger generation.  The problem is that many of them were horrible with their finances and they are going to have to work much longer than they should have. 

Hilarious. The "solution for the job market is for the baby boomers to die". Yeah, that's the ticket, the job market doldrums are due to the baby boomers. "Horrible with their finances"?  Wow. I guess that the stupid housing bubble crash that precipitated this mess along with the bank and financial mess ala the "too big to fail"  was the fault of the baby boomers?  Truth is that centralized planning of an economy does not work. It has never worked anywhere yet this is what these jerks in washington have attempted to do. As a result this entire country has suffered, both the young and the old. People's pension plans evaporated, their IRAs lost 50% or more of their value, etc. Your "horrible with their finances" statement is an insult to these folks.

Thanks for the advice guys. Sound advice all around and it eases my stress a bit. Sorry for my mini rant but when givin an opportunity to blow off some steam on the internet, Im going to take it. hah.

CZ, loans dont kick in until 3-6 months after graduation, depending on your situation. I also have a mix of sub'd and unsub'd loans. The little things are too much to get into, but for me I dont see staying in school as a great option. As a Marketing major more school (master and so on) is just prolonging the inevitable and will make things worse in the long run. Im not opposed to further schooling in the future but for now I'd only go that route if a company wanted to pay me through it. 

You also have to be taking 2 classes to put off the loans at any time. I will actually most likely be a part time student at the community college next fall for this reason. My loan payments start in September so I can be a part time student Sept-Jan, 2 classes cost ~$1,000, so for that much money I stave off loans an extra 7 months. 

If you're curious my plan is to obviuosly scramble for anything and everything throughout this semester. I dont care the company or the position, Internship paid or unpaid, anything to build my "in major" experience which is curently none. Im not opposed to even working at a Walmart type of job at first, work is work. Ill be living at home while doing this and mostly staying in,so I will have virtually ZERO expenses so I can thank my parents for that. Ill save up a good chunk of change ($15,000+) before I move out and find a roommate somewhere.

I also have a buss boy job on weekends that I'll be doing. I know it sounds scummy,but work is work and these guys pay under the table cash; with tips I end up making ~$14 an hour untaxed, so that helps. It means Ill be working 60+hour weeks up graduation, but hey I need to build a Cash base so that I can pay both Rent+Loan for a looooong time. As much as Im dreading it Im still looking forward to finally actually starting my life.


Thanks for Letting me rant people, even if no one reads. Feels good. 

I also have a buss boy job on weekends that I'll be doing. I know it sounds scummy,but work is work and these guys pay under the table cash; with tips I end up making ~$14 an hour untaxed, so that helps. It means Ill be working 60+hour weeks up graduation, but hey I need to build a Cash base so that I can pay both Rent+Loan for a looooong time. As much as Im dreading it Im still looking forward to finally actually starting my life.

IF there is an Outback around you, apply there. My son and quite a few of his buddies worked at Outback. Waiters there are pretty well paid, they share tips and for a marketing major. It really is good experience in that you do learn how to be friendly, how to deal with complaints, bad customers, interplaying with your boss, your peers, etc. Believe it or not it may lead to possible contacts in the business world. One of my son's high school and college friends ended up with a good job with Budweiser as a result of meeting a guy when he served him at Outback.

Ultimately though the job market is not great and what this country really needs is those damn baby boomers to either retire or die.  Once they are out of the picture it will allow people to move up the ladder and that will open up more positions for the younger generation.  The problem is that many of them were horrible with their finances and they are going to have to work much longer than they should have.  

Maybe you might want to read some actual researched data on this. Not gonna argue with you, but when you put stuff iike this out there, you shoud be prepared to get facts in response.


http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st341