Wagner, Floyd, Beltran, Pedro Martinez, Glavine, Cameron, LoDuca, Valentin, Delgado, Nady, Endy Chavez, Julio Franco, Offerman, Mientkiewicz, Shawn Green, Ramon Castro, Steve Trachsel, Moises Alou, and Marlon Anderson added to the young players like Wright, Reyes, Heilman, Gomez, Maine,Joe Smith, Feliciano, Victor Diaz, Mike Jacobs, Bell, Ring, and others...all of these additions were not stars but, they all played a part in the team's success for the winning years from 2005-2008 when theMets, coming off of 3 very bad years, won 357 games, lost 291 games..

Obviously you mean the mid-2000s but your point is valid.  It's a mix of youth and veterans, and that seems to be the plan this time around.  Of course te last time around most of those young players didn't work out, but Wright, Reyes and (briefly) Smith and Maine did.  

This time though really could be like the 80s...maybe.  You look at 80-83 that was one sad team.  2002-2004 was also really bad, but at least the team just had a successful stretch beforehand.  In 1983 it had been nearly 10 years since they were even over .500.

Every era is different, but that basic framework can be effective again.

As far as mid-levels go I agree with Bourn but I would use him as the exception because filling that CF role is so difficult.  The corners are a lot easier and production can be had for the $5MM - $8MM range. 

Minor, Beachy, Venters, Kimbrel, Freeman, Heyward, Simmons, Medlen, Walden, Teheran, Justin Upton

Strasburg, Zimmermann, Gonzalez, Storen, Clippard, Detweiler, Ramos, Desmond, Espinosa, Zimmerman, Harper, Span...

Those are both great lists of young players, but there are two huge unknowns:  will they pan out, and if they do will both teams break the bank payroll-wise to keep them intact?  You just never know.

The list of players that have started off looking like all-stars and have flamed out is huge.  Are we seeing it with Lincecum now?  Maybe.  We saw it with Dontrelle Willis, Kerry Wood, and a host of other young phenoms.  We might be seeing it in Boston with their stable of mid-20s pitchers.  There's just no way to predict the unpredictable.

This is just going to be a really interesting year.  Probably not a real successful one on the diamond but maybe a successful one around it. 

Fang, Granted that Alderson dropped Castillo and Perez at the start of 2011, that didn't save any money for that year but it was 18 M that could have been available for 2012.  Also available for 2012 would have been the Beltran 19 M, Reyes 11 M and Francisco Rodriguez 13 M option.  That is 61 M that might have been reinvested in the product on the field.  Our free agent spending was for Chris Young, Scott Hairston, Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco and Ronny Cedano.  The reinvestment was about 15 M.  We had a pre AS break record of 7 games over .500 and at one point in June we were in second place.  Perhaps a more aggressive tact to the 2012 preseason would have kept us competitive for the complete season.  Gee and Santana were both shot by the end of June and well before the trading deadline. 

The opportunities were there, the money and willingness was not.  That 45 M that went unspent went into the clawback payment fund.  This year we will also field a team with a payroll of well under 100 M and the payback fund will get another bump.  That is the first priority, not the product on the field.  I can't answer this;  what happens if Sterling Enterprise defaults?    

Wheeler to live tweet Top 100 Prospects list

On Tuesday at 9 p.m. ET, MLB.com's 2013 Top 100 Prospects list will be revealed on MLB.com and MLB Network, and you're invited to interact with several of the players on the list as they live tweet the unveiling, moderated by MLBPipeline.com ([@MLBPipeline]), using the hashtag #MLBPipeline.

On board to watch and weigh in on the list are record-setting Reds prospect Billy Hamilton ([@b_ham_3]), D-backs hurlers Archie Bradley ([@ArchieBradley7]) and Tyler Skaggs ([@TylerSkaggs37]), future Mariners battery Taijuan Walker ([@tai_walker]) and Mike Zunino ([@Mike_Zunino]), Mets ace right-handed prospect Zack Wheeler ([@Wheelerpro45]) and Rangers slugger Mike Olt ([@molt2222]). MLB.com Draft and prospect expert Jonathan Mayo ([@JonathanMayoB3]) will also be interacting with fans.

The annual ranking of baseball's biggest and brightest young talent is assembled by [Mayo], who compiles input from industry sources, including scouts and scouting directors. It is based on analysis of players' skill sets, upsides, closeness to the Majors and potential immediate impact to their teams. The list, which is one of several prospect rankings on [MLB.com's Prospect Watch], only includes players with rookie status in 2013.

I do understand that it has been very depressing for the Mets fans for quite a while now.

Anderson has  not been put  in an easy situation.

A team losing a lot of money as its players recieve high salaries but not perform.

He has had to deal with an owner going through major financial problems.

Not only  did they have major finan cial problems  but there was also a large amoun t of uncertainty.

The Wilpons are very lucky to have been able to  hold on to the mets.

Dont know what the final numbers looked like this past year but the annual amount lost has been going down while the future talent level has gon e up.

That being said it is not  until the end of this year that we will be free of the last large contract not performing in Sanatana. In all  fairness to Santana when healthy he has pitched very well but not 24  mil per year well.

What has been coming down the pipelin e for the mets has been pitching. That pitching is now arriving. 

It has all been about the  timing and the future for Anderson. he does not want just a good year he wants a dynasty. 

It's unlikely I'll be able to watch the show and follow along tomorrow night as I'll be getting ready for a business trip but I'll be interested to see how it shakes out.  I might just follow Wheeler on Twitter to see how that goes also.

Point being thanks for posting ATW.  Those are always good to catch when possible.

Also on the Bourn thread you were saying you're excited for the season no matter what.  Same here--no matter what the outlook is for the season, pitchers and catchers reporting and the buildup to opening day are two of the best times of the year. 

When will the Mets contend.   My best guess is 2018 at the earliest, which considering the strength of the Braves and Nationals is a good thing.

That is where I stopped reading! 2015 is an better guess IMO.

The Nat's are set to be the big dogs on the block for the next several years like the Phillies and Braves runs before them. They are loaded with young high end talent, a nice veteran mix, a surplus of pitching and some nice prospects which includes one of the minor leagues top hitting prospects who also is an exceptional defensive player. This is not an indictment on the Mets but rather kudos to the Nat's for developing a strong organization over the past few years with a lot of luck built in. Harper and Strasberg are going to be All Stars for a long time.

The Braves reflect the same mantra as the Nat's but the Nat's personel at present is better overall. The Braves are clearly better then the rest of the division except the Nat's and much like the Nat's are loaded in key places. If Heyward "busts" out to his potential or either Upton plays consisent this team can be scary good for the next few years.

The Phillies are a "now" team but have some young pieces to build around. If they tank they can "rebuild" in a hurry by trading off some key veterans who will be in high demand especially with the added wild card. This team will rid itself annually over the next three years of one to two mega contrcts a year so they will continue to be players in free agency.

The Mets are a few years away from serious contention as the "key" pieces they are adding ie Harvey, Wheeler, d'Arnaud will need time to develop and they still need to find answers in the outfield and bullpen. Eventually they should be good but the Nat's and Braves should still be better for the next 3-5 years.

The Marlins have less MLB talent to work with then the Mets but probably have more "high end" prospects from which to work with. All those trades imported a lot of minor league talent. They will take a while to develop but the Marlins have just as many "high end" pitching prospects as the Mets but they have a legit prospect at every outfield position in the minors. If they ever trade Stanton for a super rich prospect package (watch out for the Yankees and Rangers) they can "rebuild" quickly.

The problem is not that Alderson isn't doing his job, he is, it's just the Nat's and Braves are clearly better and should be for the foreseeable future. Prospects are just that, unproven commodities, so soley banking on the "Escobar","Wilson","Humber","Pelfrey","Pulsipher","Milledge", "Gomez", "Martinez" ect of the world can get an organization in trouble and for a long long time. Proven talent always outweighs the "potential" factor and the Nat's and Braves have that now.

That is where I stopped reading!..-Tartans


Not a very flattering comment.  Reading in total may have influenced your thinking or you may have learned something new.  Two reasons that I read even the posts that I disagree with.  Differing points of view also promote discussion which can lead to enlightenment and a moderation of both positions.  I don't know if it is fact or fiction that the ostrich buries it's head in the sand when threatened, but I appologize for threatening your position with, IMO, a well thought out point of view.   


Incidently, I just posted on your Michael Bourn thread.  Feel free to skip that reading and return to the sand box.    

Crazy j..after reading your post,2 things are abundantly clear.
               1st.The NL East is home to two of MLB's best teams.Both Was.,and Atl. are loaded for bear,and not just for this year but for the forseeable future.
               2nd.The Mets have to be one of the worst org. in any sport at both evaluating and nurturing prospects.I know that this process is a crap-shoot to a degree,but c'mon,as they say"even a blind squirrel turns up a nut once in a while".When I look at your list of players that never "panned out" for the Mets,

players who were drafted early and super-hyped,I wonder who is in charge of our minor leagues.Even now,when the Mets farm system is in the best shape it has been in a while,the only reason it is ranked as high as it is,is b/c of talent brought in via trades.Our top 3 prospects were obtained through trades in the last year and a half.One would think that with all the high draft choices this team has had,we would/should have better talent climbing up our minors ladder.

                sorry about the two posts,my little met fan,3 yr. old son was trying to help...

I agree Wall.. Things change every season , some players develop faster , trades develop , future singings will appear I agree the Mets are on the right track and will bring a winner much earlier than 2018, with a Wheeler Harvey Neise along with Gee getting better the Mets will get better,

Well MLB's top 100 prospect list came out last night... and, Travis d'Arnaud is rated at #6, Zack Wheeler at #8 overall.  The Mets have 2 of the top 10 best rated prospects in baseball! The Mets have 3 in the top 30 with Noah Syndergaard at #29. What's even more interesting is that the division Braves, Phillies, and Nationals don't even have even 1 prospect in the top 25...


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp
?ymd=20130129&content_id=41247106&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Funny, I was thinking the same thing while reading that this morning.  Obviously it's very top heavy but who cares, most strong-but-not-top prospects don't make it anyhow.

Hey if we're going into a rebuild mode (which this essentially is) might as well do it by getting top prospects in return.  It definitely makes things a lot more exciting this year as we'll have a chance to really follow what they're doing and await the inevitable call-ups.  Syndergaard is just a little something extra! 

What's even more interesting is that the division Braves, Phillies, and Nationals don't even have even 1 prospect in the top 25...ATW

Of course you do realize that the Braves and Nats have most of their top prospects from the past 8 years now on the MLB rosters...

They are both a few years ahead of the Mets and they have already promoted their Harpers, Strasburgs, Zimmermanns, Simmons, Heywards, Freemans, and the rest...they both did a great job with their picks and through trades...

Let's hope the Mets are so lucky...

No Wilmer Flores in the Top 100 btw.  Time to stop calling him a "top" prospect.

I think MLB ranked Flores as the 9th best "3rd base" prospect.  He likely won't be playing 3rd if he reaches the majors as a Met because of Wright, and he's said to be too slow for SS or the outfield.  So the Mets are considering moving him to either 1st or 2nd, most likely 2nd.  So I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out, will Murphy or Davis be traded?? Or will Flored be the one who gets dealt?

We'll have to see how well Murphy and Davis do this year, highly doubt Davis gets traded this year but trading Murphy is a possibility if we can sell if or when he's on a hot streak and get something decent back. Davis is not eligible for free agency until 2017 but he is projected to be making around $7-8 mil in 2014 and $15 mil by 2016. So it may be just a case where the Mets want to trade him sometime in between so they won't have to pay him the big bucks.

ATW,  if Wilmer Flores moves to 2nd, his power would vault him back into the top 100.  Ay any rate he is still a valuable piece in a trade.  As a 'Super Two' Ike Davis has the advantage of the early arbitration and I can see 10 M in 2016, but for 15 M he'll need an MVP or two.  This should be the time to offer him an extention to buy out his arbitration years and a couple of his FA years,  5 years 50 M and a 18 M mutuel option for 2019.  He would be 32 as a free agent if the option is included.

I think MLB ranked Flores as the 9th best "3rd base" prospect.



One problem, he can't play third base.  And I dont mean he cant play third base because he's blocked by David.  He can't play third base period and most scouts doubt whether he can play 2nd or even the outfield.  Which basically means defensively he's another Lucas Duda and like Duda, his sole purpose on this team will be trade bait.