With the 6th pick?

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March 5, 2013 4:13 pm

J. Jones if hes healthy.  I dont get the inside scoop so I truly dont know the situation w his health.
showstopper101
SinceMay 4, 2008
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March 5, 2013 4:16 pm

Two words Stopper...

Spinal Stenosis...

They are not disputing he has it, just what stage it is in right now..The prognosis can change in 6 mo, 2 yr, 8 yrs...You just never know and THAT is what makes it a big risk at #6...


Irish Dawg 42
SinceOct 6, 2006
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March 5, 2013 5:04 pm

Irish, I know what the injury is, but dont know the extent or long term effect it has on athletes.  If the Dr says u can get 5-6 yrs w/out it bothering him....he should b the call at 6.
showstopper101
SinceMay 4, 2008
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March 5, 2013 5:16 pm

I know what the injury is, but dont know the extent or long term effect it has on athletes.  If the Dr says u can get 5-6 yrs w/out it bothering him....he should b the call at 6.

I know what it is . i have it . it is progressive . even surgurie isn't guarnteed to help alleviate it . although they now have a laser spinal procedure which i wish was around when i had all of mine done . the sucsess  rate is 90% better from what i have read but still no guarntees . i had to quit playing all sports including Golf & racing which killed me Cry. i was a machinist / tool & die maker a weekend warrior when it came to sports activities . i would imagine the high impact of playing linebacker will only worsen it at a rapid rate depending on how bad his deal is .mine was very bad so i was told and how i felt and still do some days i belive them and i had good docs . i had good insurance so i got good docs  . i dont think he has 5 years before he wont be able to play anymore .

Jarvis Jones save the $$$$ you get from your first contract as you may not see a second one .
bluezhound32
SinceNov 8, 2007
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March 5, 2013 5:21 pm

So Bluez if he can get through his 1st contract would u draft him or look elsewhere?  Does he need shots before every game?  He seemed fine in the tough SEC every week.
showstopper101
SinceMay 4, 2008
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March 5, 2013 7:57 pm

I would look elsewhere . after seeing him stink it up against Bama in the SEC Championship game then again in there bowl game . was his back bothering him those two games ? or did he just stink it up ? either way i would stay away from him . just my take .
bluezhound32
SinceNov 8, 2007
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March 5, 2013 8:42 pm

Bluez I can trust ur opinion on the injury, but the part about struggling vs Bama and Neb is not true....he had 6 tackles and 2 sacks and 8 tackles and 2 sacks respectively.  
showstopper101
SinceMay 4, 2008
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March 5, 2013 10:14 pm

So Bluez if he can get through his 1st contract would u draft him or look elsewhere?
Can you assure me the stenosis will hold off debilitating his skills for those 5 years?

Here is what I know...
Besides the Spinal Stenosis, Jones missed a game last season due to a groin injury, he also missed another game due to an ankle injury...

BECAUSE of the Spinal Stenosis, he is more prone to cervical cord neurapraxia, which is a more complicated type of a common stinger...I had stingers in high school...scary, but not a real big deal. CCN on the other hand effects both shoulders/arms and usually lasts 48 hours or more...When these occurances begin happening more frequently(which is common in those with Cervical Spinal Stenosis) what do you think that will do to Jones psyche?

Here is another piece of the puzzle from http://bleacherreport.com/articles/
1552191-understanding-jarvis-jones-
case-of-cervical-spinal-stenosis :

In 1997, Dr. Joseph Torg and colleagues [demonstrated] that cervical spinal stenosis likely increases the risk of developing cervical cord neurapraxia (CCN), a condition defined as temporary paralysis of two or more limbs for up to 48 hours (h/t Pub Med). Current theory states that in CCN, direct hits to the head or neck compress the spinal cord between two vertebrae, thereby interrupting its signaling and producing symptoms.

Dr. Torg found that out of 104 patients who suffered an episode of CCN, 86 percent had some degree of cervical spinal stenosis. Additionally, 100 percent of the episodes occurred during participation in a sport, and 87 percent occurred during football. Finally, of the 63 patients that returned to contact sports after their CCN resolved, 56 percent had another episode.

In short, cervical spinal stenosis predisposes to CCN, and those who have had one episode of CCN are likely to have another
So again...once they begin, and become more frequent, what will Jones desire be to be the best at his position? Working your arse off for 2 years to become a young millionaire is one thing...Continuing to dare permanent damage, after becoming a young millionaire is quite another thing...



Now, answer this question of your original question:

So Bluez if he can get through his 1st contract would u draft him or look elsewhere?
My question is this...If there is a better than average chance that he begins having incidents that will erode his skill level, would you spend a draft pick in the top ten to take a chance that he might last 4-5 years?




The risk just keeps getting bigger and bigger the more I read abot this imho....

Maybe even bigger than taking a guy from Ghana who is a physical freak of nature despite his lack of training...

Definitely bigger than taking a guard who would anchor the LH side of the line for the next 8-10 years...forget about the making it past his first contract...



I agree they will not take a guard at #6 BTW...that isn't the argument. What I could see is them trading down a handful of picks and him possibly being available while picking up a 2nd rounder...That is where Warmack comes in...

Irish Dawg 42
SinceOct 6, 2006
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March 6, 2013 7:46 am

I would look elsewhere . after seeing him stink it up against Bama in the SEC Championship game then again in there bowl game . was his back bothering him those two games ? or did he just stink it up ? either way i would stay away from him . just my take .
but the part about struggling vs Bama and Neb is not true....he had 6 tackles and 2 sacks and 8 tackles and 2 sacks respectively.
SS, you should really go back and watch the game again.  Jones got RUN over all day long vs bama.  Aside from the sacks, most of his tackles were not at or near the LOS.  He couldn't shed the TE or Tackle blocking him.     
Crextin
SinceApr 2, 2009
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March 6, 2013 8:30 am

Crex, I agree he did struggle vs Bama and their OT, but thats a big mismatch IMO.  Ur talking bout 50-60 lbs so he shouldnt win that battle.  The bigger question should b raised....where was Ogletree? Bama had 350 rush yds,,,,IMO I think Minter is the best MLB in this draft.
showstopper101
SinceMay 4, 2008
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March 6, 2013 9:12 am

Crex, I agree he did struggle vs Bama and their OT, but thats a big mismatch IMO.  Ur talking bout 50-60 lbs so he shouldnt win that battle.  The bigger question should b raised....where was Ogletree? Bama had 350 rush yds,,,,IMO I think Minter is the best MLB in this draft.
Hmm..so Manti Te'o who tore it up ALL YEAR, until the Bama' game, is all of a sudden overrated and shouldn't be a first round draft pick...

Alec Ogletree who is considered by everyone in the free world to be the best ILB in this draft, minus his off the field issues, had a great year...until the Bama' game...so now:

Kevin Minter is your pick for best ILB? Based on what? I hope it isn't the Bama game...They pressed the Tide on the corners all game which held them to a manageable amount of rushing...Minter had little to do with it, considering he had 3 linemen in front of him who most likely are 1st-early 2nd round draft picks...

Sorry, Te'o or Ogletree didn't have that luxury...Te'o had one D-lineman mentioned nationally in Louis Nix and Ogltree has Jon Jenkins...
Minter has Mingo, Bennie Logan and Montgomery...

The difference between these 3 LBers is the fact that the LSU defense rarely lets anything get through to the next level...

Vs. the pro caliber Bama offense...

Ogletree - 11 tackles
Te'o - 10 tackles
Minter - 7 tackles

But, both Ogletree and Te'o DID have bad games against them, no denying that...Both ND and Georgia were abused at the LOS, unlike LSU who was able to hold their own...That was the difference.

Go off a body of work, not a single game in a man's career against what many consider to be pro level competition...and write them off...


Irish Dawg 42
SinceOct 6, 2006
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March 6, 2013 9:22 am

Crex, I agree he did struggle vs Bama and their OT, but thats a big mismatch IMO.  Ur talking bout 50-60 lbs so he shouldnt win that battle. 

And why should I believe that he could win that battle at the next level? For him to be an effective OLB/DE pass rusher he's going to have to win that battle more often than not.   
Crextin
SinceApr 2, 2009
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March 6, 2013 12:01 pm

I feel bad for Jones.  He did play very well most of the time.  His stats say he should be a top 10 pick.  That said, I would not spend a first round pick on him.  It's just too risky...Bluez understands this spinal stenosis thing all too well.  It's not a condition that can improve with some sort of treatment...It only gets worse.  Didn't we all see DaQuan Bowers fall in last years draft because of a similiar issue?  I'm actually sort of surprised that the commish doesn't just rule these guys out.  All of his focus these days seems to be on player safety.  Letting guys play in the NFL with this condition seems like playing with fire...The last thing any football fan wants to see is another player go down with a devastating spinal injury.  
TOPDAWG
SinceOct 12, 2006
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March 6, 2013 12:11 pm

The last thing any football fan wants to see is another player go down with a devastating spinal injury.  
I don't think it is the type of condition that puts him at higher risk for spinal chord injury TD..

It is more of a pain tolerance and more importantly, more prone to stinger type issues which makes his shoulders and arms go numb...this happens in the first quarter and he is done for the day. It seems as the stenosis progresses, so do the occurances of stingers...If he gets to the point where he is dealing with these regularly, what will his mentality be? Go all out not knowing how long his career will be? OR...cash the top ten draft pick paycheck and deal with his health issues, which in turn makes him a bust?
THAT is a big risk in my mind...


Irish Dawg 42
SinceOct 6, 2006
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March 6, 2013 12:29 pm

Thats my argument in a 3-4 defense.....OLB have a big mismatch vs an OT when teams kick the DE inside to maybe a 3 or 4I.  Im not just using the Bama game as my gauge.  Yes Ogletree has off the field issues and is kinda small, Teo is a bum and I have said that from day 1....the combine re-affirmed my notion and Minter is a tacking machine that is all over the field.  He was a beast vs Clem and many other games.
showstopper101
SinceMay 4, 2008
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March 6, 2013 12:35 pm

I don't think it is the type of condition that puts him at higher risk for spinal chord injury TD.
Well maybe I didn't word it right, but we are still talking about a narrowing of the spine that leaves one susceptable to a greater risk of nerve damage....That seems pretty scary to me.  Maybe I'm over sensitive to it because I've got chronic back issues and nerve damage myself.  I type with one finger, not because I'm an idiot, but because I have very limited sensation in my hands and I can't feel the keys...If somebody stomps my foot it takes about 2 or 3 seconds for my brain to register that that freakin hurt..It's not ideal, believe me...I'm not sure, but I don't think the human body can take too many "stingers" before the nerve damage becomes irreversable....just my 2 cents.
TOPDAWG
SinceOct 12, 2006
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March 6, 2013 4:26 pm

 I type with one finger, not because I'm an idiot, but because I have very limited sensation in my hands and I can't feel the keys...

TD ..I Got ya beat ..i use two fingers Laughing

i use the third one to flip off my asshole**** neighbour that has the ankle biter that poos in my back yard .. i do have a plan of attack to get even with him . if i was the old me i would shove that dog poo down his throat Yell.. but alas we will get even with him in other ways ..no worries the dog wont be harmed .i like animals . its humans that piss me off at times .its not the dogs fault he is owned by a moron !
bluezhound32
SinceNov 8, 2007
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March 6, 2013 4:45 pm

Teo is a bum and I have said that from day 1....the combine re-affirmed my notion and Minter is a tacking machine that is all over the field.  He was a beast vs Clem and many other games.
Yeah?! A Bum you say?

You haven't watched a single ND game outside of Bama if you mean that more than an instigative remark to get me to react..

Te'o career at ND he AVERAGED 109 tackles per season over 4 seasons...437 career tackles and SEVEN INTs...

Minter? Had one super season out of 3, career ave per season:69...206 career tackles and ONE INT...all over the field huh?

Yep, Minter is the man...keep riding that train...and discounting Te'o, the Bama game did him in along with this stupid catfishing deal...



You are merely a ND hater and that is what it boils down to...keep up the good work!




Irish Dawg 42
SinceOct 6, 2006