Michael Bourn

I'm not really upset if that goes through. I would have liked to have Bourn so we'd have a legitimate CFer and leadoff hitter, but the reality is that he's aging and not what I consider a superstar. The problem now is that the Mets will either have to sign one of the 3 or 4 decent free agents available next offseason, or have to trade a couple of our top prospects to get one sometime within the next couple years.

Wow yeah, looks like this becomes a pointless discussion now.  Interesting move by the Indians to essentially replace Choo.  Cleveland has redone most of their outfield now with Swisher, Stubbs and Bourn to join Brantley out there in an intriguing group.  They've got Reynolds at 1B.  Lots of free-swingers there but a pretty good defensive group overall.

So it was less than $15MM.  I still believe this kind of contract would've worked well here, but let's see how Nieuwenhuis does out there this year and then what happens before 2014. 

I'm thinking the Mets may go after Grady Sizemore now, but he won't be able to play for a few months after the season starts.

What about Vernon Wells? I know he has a big contract but what about trading Santana for him? I don't think their salaries are that far off and a change of scenery might help him. He's had a volatile career and coming off a bad one but he hit 31 and 25 homers the years before and would be a clear upgrade over what we have. I don't blame the Mets for Bourn or not getting someone in the outfield because I can't remember a time where the position has been as bare on the market but watching this outfield strike out every other time up at the plate, is going to be brutal.

Better off sticking with Santana, I got no faith in Wells nowadays, besides he was probably one of those guys using PEDs like crazy early in his career but never got caught, stopped because of the testing in the past few years.

Straight to the point though, he's just no good anymore, and 34 years old.  

I actually think Santana will try a little harder this year given that he knows theres a good chance he's gonna be traded and he's in a walk year. Mets already said they plan to use Santana without any limits for the remainder of his time in NY.  

So let's talk again about trading Santana at the deadline when Wheeler is ready to come up, and hopefully Santana will stay healthy and have pitched well enough by then to net us a half decent outfielder from some potential postseason team desperate to fill a spot in their rotation.

I truly feel bad for any of the posters on here who thought the Mets were going to sign Michael Bourn. Would he have been a very good fit? Sure. But as I have written on here whenever I post, as long as Sandy Alderson is the GM of the Mets, they will never sign a top flight free agent. That is why I continue to hope that somehow, someway Alderson is fired soon. The longer he is around, the worse and more irrelevant the Mets are going to get. And then it is going to be very hard for the next GM to turn things around, especially with the Wilpons continuing to own the team. And yes I understand the point about the Mets not wanting to lose their draft pick if they signed Bourn. But I really wish I could ask Alderson straight to his face if he really thinks the draft pick will provide as much production as Michael Bourn, assuming he makes it to the major league level. All I know is that right now, I couldn't hate the Mets team and organization more if you tried. I just hope that come next offseason some changes will finally be made. I would really like to see the Mets have an offseason similar to the one the Cleveland Indians just had come the end of the 2013 season. And in order for that to happen, the proper changes need to be made. And I believe as of right now, that means both Collins and Alderson need to go at minimum. The sooner they go, the sooner I will have hope again that the team can improve.

There's no doubt Alderson is playing a game of "patience and hope" on Mets fans. 

What I find a bit strange though about this whole Bourn situation is that according to reports, Bourn ended up signing for just $12 mil a year.  To me and most other baseball fans, that's reasonable and actually a good price for a player like him and what he brings to a team. But for the past 40-50 days all we've been hearing about is how its gonna take more than $14 mil annual salary to sign him, an the Mets are cautious to offer that.  What I'm getting at is the Mets could have easily matched this offer from Cleveland before any agreement if they really wanted him, $12 mil a year for Bourn is not overpaying so they can't really use that excuse this time. This does make Alderson look kind of bad if you think about that.

Oh and in my 2013 predictions I pegged the Indians for a 2nd place finish in the AL Central this year, but I still have them missing the playoffs. They'll be an improved team this yeat with Bourn but probably a .500 ball club, which for them is an improvement.

I predict the Mets to finish 4th in the NL East after hearing about this failure to sign the last legit free agent outfielder, when they have none. Mets could have been a .500 ball club but I think the reality now is we're looking at a 90-95 loss season. 

I also think Collins is gone after this year.

 

I also think Collins is gone after this year.

And he should be gone if the team loses 90 or more games. Still, even if he is fired, it won't give me much hope that the team will be better. Because I think Alderson is the far bigger problem at the moment and is most to blame for the position the team is in. As I have written on here before, I do not think Alderson is the right GM for the Mets given the market that they are in and I feel until he is let go the team is going to continue to fall further behind the other teams in the NL East. And then if the right GM isn't hired to replace him, it might be impossible for the Mets to turn things around on the field, especially if the Wilpons continue to own the team.

Idk, the thing I like about Alderson is at least he's stocking up the farm and not making any dumb trades.  Yes, he's overly cautious about signing free agents but look at the contracts we had to endure under the last GM that still linger and cripple our budget even today, and then look at the Wilpons financial problems due to corruption. Can't put all the blame on Alderson. 

Again though, we can agree that he dropped the ball on Bourn.  Mets should have matched or slightly beat that Cleveland offer @$12 mil a year.  Even if they offered Bourn $13 mil/4yrs with a club option for a 5th year, I bet he would have taken it and the Mets would still have been getting a good deal. Now that we lost out we face a situation where we will likely have to trade some top prospect(s) to get a decent outfielder within the next couple years. So yeah, Alderson did screw this one up, I'll give you that.

I dont know how many votes you are going to get for saying he messed up.

While the Mets have lost out on a quality player and at only 12 mil per season that is for 5 years for a 30 year old player.

There were many on this site that said he was not worth even what we offered.

In the end Anderson offered the maximum amount of wht he though he was worth.

And some will argue that like Reyes Bourne is being overpaid not so much for the amount but in terms of the lenght of the contract.

Either way we move forward and we get to see what Baxter/Nieuwenhuis can do for an entire season but also Vladspin.

Vladspins numbers actually project out to be a 20/20 player (Yogi?????) 

 But I really wish I could ask Alderson straight to his face if he really thinks the draft pick will provide as much production as Michael Bourn-Kru


That # 11 pick was the deal breaker, the Mets weren't going to sign Michael Bourn at the cost of losing the pick and the use of the slot money in the draft.  For a rebuilding club a bad draft would be a step back.  Mark Teixeira last week said he wasn't worth 20 M, he said, when he was in his first years not earning much he had value, but no one is worth what they are paying him now.  Teixeira is a GG with power, drives in and scores over 100 runs and he doesn't strike out.  Sure, it's a different position but if he isn't worth 20 M is Bourn worth his money?  The Yankees until the last couple of years had zero concern about the payroll budget.  The Red Sox briefly joined them, now it's the Dodgers.  For the rest of the world the payroll is intertwined from one player to the next.  Teams that don't have a infinite ceiling need to assess value, because to much of the payroll assigned to higher risk players is inviting disaster.  2009-2011 the injuries to our high payroll core of Carlos Beltran, Delgado, Johan Santana, Reyes, Wright and Jason Bay prevented the Mets from financially being unable to replace their production.  Neither Alderson or Collins have worn out their welcome.

With the Indians signing Bourn, Drew Stubbs is likely to be traded. Most of Drew Stubbs value is tied to playing CF, he would make an interesting platoon partner. I would make a low ball offer and not haggle. I don't think Stubbs is a guy you chase.

The Mets screwed the pooch once again as Bourn fell into their laps. They could have signed him and fought the draft compensation later. Oh well, typical.

I don't like what Alderson is doing in the outfield or bullpen. Enough with the over the hill gang and never will be guys.

Byrdak and Feliciano are both lefties who are going to challenge the likes Carson, Gorski, Kolarek and Leathersich are all guys who should be playing instead as this team is going to lose close to 90 games at least Edgin will be the top lefty. From rhe right side the Mets already have Francisco and Parnell. At least Lyons is a real MLB arm but Atchinson is 37 and injured, Burke is 30 and attempting to reinvent himself with only 1 season in MLB and the rest of the signings are ridiculous. Let Ramirez, Mazzoni, Fraser, Goeddel and all the rest of the young guys get their shot. Is Alderson saying they're really not any good?

Byrd is alright in a platoon situation as is Cowgill but the outfield is a complete joke and the worst in baseball. Duda is coming off of a broken wrist and a poor season. Can he hit 270 20 80? The Mets better hope so. Nieuwenhuis offers potential and a 265 10 45 15 sb would be a dream come true for the Mets. Baxter if lucky is a 270 5 35 type of platoon guy. These are all high end predictions. Can Byrd turn back the clock to give a 270 5 35 stat line? If if if that is the Met mantra. Play Duda and Nieuwenhuis and hope Den Dekker, Puello, Flores or Vuaghn get here soon while Nimmo sharpens his skill set in the minors.

I hope the Wilpons understand that attendance will take another drastic fall with the product they are putting out there.

Vladspins numbers actually project out to be a 20/20 player (Yogi?????) -jokati

I don't see Valdespin fitting any role.  First he is a defensive liability everywhere and while he came through the system as a middle infielder he grades out lower as a minor league 2B than Daniel Murphy at the MLB level.  His base stealing ability is questionable his minor league percentage was 64 while the MLB avg. is 70%.  His BA against RHP is lower than either Baxter or Nuiewenhuis and they both are better defensively.  He has been in the Mets organization for 6 years and has hit 44 Hrs in 1760 ABs, 30 of those have been over the past two years (900 ABs).  He may be developing some power as he fills out, but I don't see how he is going to get on the field.

  

This isn't just the worst OF in baseball this year, it's the worst I can ever remember.  It's 100% question marks, and it's seriously possible all four main players out there could hit .200 with no real power or speed.

We all get the financial situation, but come on.  This team really isn't bad except for the OF.  The rotation, the infield and even the bullpen is pretty decent.  However the OF is 3 lineup slots and a full game of defense that's lacking. 

To be honest, Valdespin is the only guy with real talent in the outfield, not that I love him but he's got bat speed, foot speed and is athletic but who knows with him because he is screwy. I would take Stubbs if he's available but its not looking good and Sandy said he didn't want to punt the season but to have an outfield like this I think its inevitable.

This team really isn't bad except for the OF.

I agree, I even like their bullpen which was another question mark. They got lefties, power arms and depth but to have 3 holes in the outfield is going to take a toll on the rest of the team.

What I'm getting at is the Mets could have easily matched this offer from Cleveland before any agreement if they really wanted him, $12 mil a year for Bourn is not overpaying so they can't really use that excuse this time. This does make Alderson look kind of bad if you think about tha

Lets say the Mets were willing to go to 4 years to match this offer (which I'm not sure they were), there's still the issue of the draft pick.

The way I read everything was once an offer was agreed in principle, the arbitrator would come decide if the Mets could keep the #11 pick.  Had the Mets won, the deal would have progressed.  Had the Mets lost the deal would have been voided.

So if Bourne had a 4 year, 48 mil offer on the table, for him to even risk losing the cleveland offer, it would have beat it, not just match it.  So now you're talking prob an extra couple million a year to make it worth it. and Bourne at 14 per year * 4 years, well thats just too much.

I'd have done 12*4 or 14*3 if I was Alderson, but not the 14*4 it may have taken to get Bourne to consider passing on Cleveland's offer.

So considering the draft pick was the Mets top concern, it makes sense for Bourne to not risk playing the arbitrator game with the Mets and taking the sure money. 

According to Jon Heyman it would have taken two weeks to find out if from MLB regarding the draft pick.