Free Agent Discussion

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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 2:31 pm

As good a fit as Bush is, I dont think we will have money to spend on him.
That's a legit concern, considering our cap situation, but even elite RBs really don't get big contracts any longer (guys like AP are the exception), and Bush is hardly an elite RB. Re-do Burleson's deal and cut KVB and we've got mroe than enough to sign Bush.

I agree with your point, though- it will all come down to his asking price (or, more accurately, the price he's willing to accept) in free agency. I also don't see a huge market for his services. Green Bay would seem an ideal fit for him as well, but Ted Thompson prides himself on not signing free agents- they litterally only sign one once every couple years. The Jets, Bengals, Colts, Chargers, Cowboys, Falcons and Rams all make sense to me, but who knows at this point?


 I like both Goodson and Woodhead.  I doubt the Pats let Woodhead go though.
 From what I've been reading it sounds like he's going to hit the market. The Pats have similar backs in Shane Vareen and Jeff Demps, so they likely won't be willing to pony up the $$ to keep Woodhead.

Upon reading more about him I'm surprised to learn how fast he is. I didn't know he ran in the 4.3 range at his pro day...


Goodson is a guy I'm pretty high on as a back-up RB. He does everything pretty well, and reminds me quite a bit of Joquie Bell. We don't need another RB like that, but given the low cost of back-up RBs factored against the injuries at the position it makes a lot of sense to add a guy like Goodson for insurance.


Hartline will be asking more than he is worth.
What he's asking and what he'll get might not be the same thing at all...


Ginn is useless.
You're not a fan of good return men, I take it? I am, and Ginn is a darn good one.

Schilens is always hurt.
That used to be the case, but he's stayed healthy the last two seasons. 

Pass on Casey. Heller is not going anywhere.
Heller is a free agent, and apples-to-apples Casey brings a lot more to the offense... 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 3:04 pm

Not true.  Backus only gets ragged on by ill-informed fans.  He may not be the best run blocker, but he's done a great job of protecting Matty's blindside.
Bring me up to speed, your doin' a fine job with his mediocre ability. It's odd being in the league twelve years and has never improved his run blocking skills. When Backus blocking assignments are in on the tackles it's no wonder the Lionsdon't run to the left side to often. I'm sure you'll wanna bring up his 1.5 sacks he gave up last season and it looks great on paper. Averaging 7.25 sacks a year throughout his career isn't good. Hard to make it to the pro bowl for being decent and the weakest link in run blocking.
 What's that you were sayign about Backus getting ragged on by ill-informed fans?




The offensive red zone efficiency must have been able to score at will. Back to reality... fill me in on how well the Oline did in the red zone. Crunch time explains a lot on whether an offense is bad or good. Top three passer in 2012 are Drew BreesMatthew Stafford and Tony Romo... all three got to watch the playoffs. The Offensive Line ranked 16th in 2011 and fell to 24th last season with only 35 more rushing attempts.

I'm not sure how to try to respond to that. I don't exactly see what you're trying to say... and in what metric was the o-line ranked 16th? 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 3:10 pm

The thing is we need to see who Detroit plans on bringing back. Godsur Cherilous, KVB, Backus, Peterman, Delams, Houston, Avril, Bell, ect.

That will have a ton to do with it.

I think Cherilus is gone due to our depth at tackle. I think Avril is gone too, he's priced himself out of our budget. Houston is 50/50, imo- he might get an offer we just won't match. Delmas will likely return, and Bell (as a RFA) is almost certain to return.

KVB, Backus and Peterman aren't free agents, but I see why you're including them. Backus has a decent cap figure and should definitely be expected back. KVB is almost certainly gone, and Peterman is pretty likely to get axed too.

But yeah, whoever we do, or don't, re-sign will really change who they look at from outside the orginaztion. 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 4:57 pm

It's odd being in the league twelve years and has never improved his run blocking skills.
It is odd.  I can't explain it.  However, maybe it has something to do with the constant turnover at the coaching positions.  Dunno.  But that doesn't take away his pass-blocking skills. 

When Backus blocking assignments are in on the tackles it's no wonder the Lions don't run to the left side to often.
Never claimed he was a good run-blocker.  Didn't you catch that part?  However, this past year, the Lions gained 3.87 yds when running towards Backus' side, 21st in the league.  Now not great, but certainly not the worst.  FWIW 

I'm sure you'll wanna bring up his 1.5 sacks he gave up last season and it looks great on paper. Averaging 7.25 sacks a year throughout his career isn't good.
Of course I will.  These last 2 years have been very good for him.  My question is why you want to dismiss it so quickly?  Could it be b/c it discredits your claim that it "looks good on paper"?  Of course it looks good on paper, but it also looked good on the field. 

Hard to make it to the pro bowl for being decent and the weakest link in run blocking.
Who said anything about the ProBowl?  I never claimed him to be an all-world LT.  But he's been very good at pass-blocking.  And if you wanna start throwing out ProBowl claims, then there's no debating with you.  ProBowls are a sham.  Stafford should've made it last year but it's a popularity contest.  Plain and simple.

microwahevo
SinceNov 23, 2006
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 8:17 pm

Stafford should've made it last year but it's a popularity contest.  Plain and simple.
When the voting took place Stafford was coming off or near the end of wearing a splint and glove on his throwing hand. Who knew Stafford would throw for over 5,000 yards, 41 td's and the Lions would win 10 games.
Of course it looks good on paper, but it also looked good on the field.
I would agree with you if the pass pressure was really there all season long, but it wasn't.
However, this past year, the Lions gained 3.87 yds when running towards Backus' side, 21st in the league.
You do know that's through the B-gap with Rob Sims and Jeff Backus, right?
These last 2 years have been very good for him.  My question is why you want to dismiss it so quickly?
Cutting ties with mediocrity is long over do.

LionsWhyMe
SinceSep 12, 2006
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 8:54 pm

 Feel free to tear it apart , but let's not fall into a discussion about the salary cap situation

Grow a pair and just tell me not to post on your thread.   Tongue out 

Millenhew belongs in Congress where he can continue to mismanage money with idiots who are just as bad at it as he is. 
Hear The Meow
SinceJan 7, 2009
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 9:15 pm

Danny Woodhead is really starting to grow on me. I really didn't realize how flat-out fast he was. He kicked out a 4.33 at his pro day and ran the 100 in college in 10.5. 

I thought he was just a good, gritty white kid with good vision. But he has Jahvid Best speed. Did not know that.

Screw Reggie Bush, get Woodhead for half the cost. He can run between the tackle surprisingly well for a smaller back, seems to do fine in blitz pick-up, and is a great receving back, and has a career 4.8 ypc average. He just turned 28, but has less than 300 career carries.

He's short at 5'8", but he's an even 200 lbs. so he's got a bit stockier build than Best had.

He's not an every down back, but in a backfield with Leshoure and Bell (and Goodson, because we're going to be smart and snag him) he's exactly what we need to fill the Jahvid Best role. 

He has some kick return experience, but his results were marginal. I'd give him at least a long look in camp at punt returner. The Pats didn't use him in that role at all, but he seems to have the skill set for the job. Some guys just aren't punt returners though, so that's just specualtion on my part.

I'd make him a priority signing for sure. He fits Best's role seemingly perfectly, and should be a reasonable cap number, especially compared to a Reggie Bush type...
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 9:19 pm

Grow a pair and just tell me not to post on your thread.   Tongue out

And here I thought I was being sufficiently diplomatic with that one...  
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 1, 2013 9:37 pm


Millenhew belongs in Congress where he can continue to mismanage money with idiots who are just as bad at it as he is.
^This^

and Raburn and Inge still suck!
themuzzer
SinceOct 17, 2006
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Free Agent Discussion

February 2, 2013 8:51 am

Danny Woodhead is really starting to grow on me. I really didn't realize how flat-out fast he was. He kicked out a 4.33 at his pro day and ran the 100 in college in 10.5. 
I'd make him a priority signing for sure. He fits Best's role seemingly perfectly, and should be a reasonable cap number, especially compared to a Reggie Bush type...


I get to see this kid every week and he is the real deal.  If you are right about the Pats, then we should defiitely snag him.  If we get him and either keep Bell or get Goodson then we should be all set at RB. 

I am just not as optimistic as you are about the Pats being satisfied with Demps.  Vereen is more of an all purpose back and they definitely like him and so is Ridley (though he fubmles a lot).  There is a chance he makes it out of NE, but he was so valuable last year that Brady may lobby to get him back.
Old Lion
SinceMar 11, 2007
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Free Agent Discussion

February 2, 2013 12:08 pm

IMO Woodhead makes it out of New England if his asking price is to high. It's a catch 22 for Detroit overpay to get him and he isn't worth it, or watch him stay with the Pats for a reasonable contract.

If by some chance the Pats let him walk, and Detroit signs him to a reasonable contract I think he can fill a couple roles. Swing/change of pace back, and slot receiver the guy has good hands.

My concern is and always be with gus like Woodhead is he is a product of the New England system.
 
JDW126
SinceDec 28, 2007
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Free Agent Discussion

February 2, 2013 12:40 pm

Danny Woodead is starting to grow on you? You've been man-crushing on that wee little Patriot for atleast two years now. That's cool though. He is a pass catching running back, or a ball carrying wideout, either way he could help.
broncosmitty
SinceApr 2, 2009
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Free Agent Discussion

February 2, 2013 10:51 pm

either keep Bell or get Goodson then we should be all set at RB. 

Both. Just in case. Cause RBs are cheap and we usually carry four.

Leshoure, Woodhead, Bell, Goodson- not a bad looking group if you ask me. Cheap too. 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 2, 2013 10:56 pm

Danny Woodead is starting to grow on you? You've been man-crushing on that wee little Patriot for atleast two years now. That's cool though. He is a pass catching running back, or a ball carrying wideout, either way he could help.
I've definitely been a big fan of his, but it seems like the most success I see him have is when the Pats spread it out and he gashes the defense inside the tackles for 8-10 yards. Or catching passes.

I'm just surprised I never knew about the speed. That's pretty freakin fast for a white kid...

 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 2, 2013 11:01 pm

 There is a chance he makes it out of NE, but he was so valuable last year that Brady may lobby to get him back.

I'm sure you're right on that one. Brady really likes Woodhead, and he has some pretty good sway, so you never know.

If they let Demps go we should take a good look at him. Fastest back in the league...

tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 5, 2013 11:36 am

Time for the defense:

DE:
Cliff Avril
Michael Johnson
Paul Kruger
Connor Barwin
Michael Bennett
Lawrence Jackson
Jason Jones

Not many options on the DE market... Avril is the highest rated of the bunch, but will be too pricey... Johnson is the best of the FA DEs, imo. He'd be a great fit for us, and if the Bengals are foolish enough to let him walk we should snap him up... Kruger and Barwin are 3-4 OLBs, but they've got the size to transition to DE in our system. Barwin is from Detroit... Bennett is solid, but nothing spectacular. He'd be an upgrade over KVB, though, and is still a young guy... LoJack already knows the system and should be the logical succesor to KVB... Jason Jones is a hybrid DE/DT who's a good, balanced, D-lineman. He's also from Detroit and played at Eastern. 

Who I'd sign: Michael Johnson, Lawrence Jackson and Jason Jones. (alternately Connor Barwin or Paul Kruger)


DT:
Henry Melton
Desmond Bryant
Corey Williams
Isaac Sopoaga
Sammie Lee Hill
Alan Branch
Glenn Dorsey
Sedrick Ellis

Just the opposite of DE- there's tons of capable young DTs set to hit the market. I could have easily included 5 more guys on this list... Melton is the best of the group, but way out of our price range, we're shopping for back-ups... Bryant is a big, ballanced DT... Williams is a solid DT and team leader... Sopoaga is a beast of a nose-tackle who could help our run defense immensly... Sammie Lee Hill is a homegrown product who is a definite keeper... Branch is a beast of a man who could be a good 3rd or 4th DT for us... Dorsey and Ellis are former top 10 picks who didn't pan out, but as a #3 or #4 DT could fit well in our system...

Who I'd sign: Corey Williams and Sammie Lee Hill (alternately Desmond Bryant)


LB:
Philip Wheeler
Brad Jones
Justin Durant
DeAndre Levy
Barrett Ruud
Keith Rivers
Aaron Curry

Wheeler is the headliner in a weak LB group... Brad Jones is a Michigan native who has good upside... Durant and Levy, well you guys know about them... Ruud fell off the map after a great 4 year stretch in Tampa Bay... Rivers and Curry would be good players to take a gamble on as back-ups...

Who I'd sign: DeAndre Levy and Brad Jones


CB:
Aquib Talib
Brent Grimes
Sean Smith
Chris Houston
Cary Williams
Derek Cox
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
E.J. Biggers **
Bradley Fletcher
Keenan Lewis **
Leodis McKelvin
Kyle Arrington
Antoine Cason

If we want to rebuild our secondary, this is the year to do it. There's tons of CB talent set to hit the market, and a whole lot of them are 6'0"+... Talib is a troubled, but talented, young CB. He'll have plenty of suitors and may sail out of our price range... Grimes may be the best cover corner on the market, but is under-sized for what we're looking for and is coming off an ACL injury... Smith is huge for a CB and is just coming into his own... You all know about Houston... Cary Williams is big, fast, can cover and tackle. All-around solid CB... Derek Cox is another big, fast, young CB who can hit... DRC may be the best of the bunch... Biggers is a guy I'd love to see us sign as a safety, same with Keenan Lewis... Fletcher isn't at the top of this group, but can be an effective starter... McKelvin is a good return man, so-so CB. He'd be a good #6 CB for us... Arrington is a bit under-sized, but would make a great nickel or dime back... Cason may be the best vaulue of the bunch- big, fast and lots of experience for a young guy...

Who I'd sign: Cary Williams and Antonie Cason (alternately- DRC, Sean Smith or Derek Cox). 


Safety:
Jarius Byrd
Dashon Goldson
LaRon Landry
William Moore
Louis Delmas
Chris Clemons
Glover Quin
Kenny Phillips
Patrick Chung
E.J. Biggers**
Sherrod Martin
Corey Lynch

Just like with CB, the free agent class at safety is loaded... Byrd is the headliner, but I'd have to think the Bills will franchise him if they can't get a deal done... Goldson is a very good option, but his price tag will probably set the market... Landry is a tackling machine who can cover. I'd make him a big priority. He had 80+ tackles in a half-season for Washington three years ago. That's insane... Moore is a quality young safety from a winning franchise... Delmas is our defensive leader, but plays out of control and is oft-injured... Clemons would make a good #3 safety... Glover Quin is the gem of the free agent class, imo. He puts up CB pass break-up numbers while playing the run effectively. Should be a great value if he hits the open market... Phillips is a clone of Delmas... Chung is a good safety, but won't make it to the open market, imo. Belichick loves his skill-set... Biggers, see above... Martin and Lynch would both be good #3 safties for us.

Who I'd sign: LaRon Landry, Glover Quin and Corey Lynch (alternately- William Moore, Louis Delmas)




 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 6, 2013 12:08 pm

There's rumors circulating that Darrius Heyward-Bey may become a salary cap casuality in Oakland.

If that happens he'd jump to the top of my wishlist as our #2 WR target.

He didn't pan out as the #1 threat that Al Davis had hoped for, but his skill-set, namely his insane deep speed, fits our needs to a tee. Nobody is going to give him #1 money based on his career arc thus far, but he's got the tools to be a quality #2 WR in our offense... 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008
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Free Agent Discussion

February 6, 2013 12:42 pm

There's rumors circulating that Darrius Heyward-Bey may become a salary cap casuality in Oakland.
I have never been a fan of Heyward-Bey but I have to admit, putting that speed acroos from CJs speed and you could see opposing safeties playing 30 yards deep instead of 20. I dont know much about his overall attitude, but if he  is willing to be Robin to CJs Batman that could be one dynamic duo.
The_Pride1
SinceMar 2, 2009
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Free Agent Discussion

February 6, 2013 1:06 pm

TP,  Regarding the defense analysis and signings, I will assume Stafford's contract will be re-worked to bring them great cap relief to go along with the roster cuts just made.  They may even shock fans and the league with re-working Suh's huge rookie contract, providing further cap space:


DE:  With the exhorbitant cost for signing a top caliber FA, IMO we do not sign Johnson, Avril, or any other top tier DE.  IMO There should be one of three elite DEs available at #5 in the draft that will more than capable of taking Avril's place on the line: Woerner, Moore, or Ansah.  LoJack is a good quality DE to take KVB's place that will not break the bank.  He knows the system and will be compete with the rookie draft pick, Willie Young (RFA) and Ronnell Lewis for the starting positions.

DT:  Resigning Williams (at a discounted rate) and (escpecially) Sammie Lee Hill will probably be a priority.  They like the rotation, with Suh and Fairley, and the DT position would continue to be the cornerstone of the defense.  

LB:  I do not believe that there will be much of a splash for this position.  They will probably sign either Levy or Durant, and then let Palmer and last year's rookies (Travis Lewis and Tahir Whitehead) fight it out for the final starting position.  I favor Durant over Levy because he's tackles better. They will probably draft another LB in the later rounds to be on special teams and to develop into a depth player.

CB:  This is where I would put my money in FA.  I would really push hard to sign either Sean Smith (if Miami lets him walk without tagging him) or Cary Williams.  If there is any way to sign both (I know, I'm really dreaming), we would be in great shape for the next few years, and would allow last year's picks to really develop.  If they can't get both, I say they will target the other to be Cox as the #2 or possibly Houston.


S: I think they will re-sign Delmas and draft the other starter.  Delmas will not command a huge contract because of his injury concerns, which IMO will have other teams shying away from signing him.  I can see the Lions targeting Jonathon Cyprien out of Fla International in the 3rd round.  From the analysts point of view on the Senior Bowl, he handled himself quite well.  He was a hard hitter in the ground game and was really impressive in pass coverage.  The Lions staff coached him in the Senior Bowl, so they should have gotten a good read on him.    
  
TxFubar
SinceFeb 18, 2009
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Free Agent Discussion

February 6, 2013 1:37 pm

DE:  With the exhorbitant cost for signing a top caliber FA, IMO we do not sign Johnson, Avril, or any other top tier DE.  IMO There should be one of three elite DEs available at #5 in the draft that will more than capable of taking Avril's place on the line: Woerner, Moore, or Ansah.  LoJack is a good quality DE to take KVB's place that will not break the bank.  He knows the system and will be compete with the rookie draft pick, Willie Young (RFA) and Ronnell Lewis for the starting positions.

Right on. LoJack will be a good vaule signing, imo, and there's good options for sure at #5. Also, Margus Hunt could be a very intriguining option at the top of the 2nd round. The guy is simply an athletic freak.

If we are going to spend on top free agent though, I definitely, 150%, prefer Johnson to Avril. Johnson is the total package, combining great length with top-tier athleticism. He's much better against the run that Avril, and is much bigger and stronger, yet damn near as quick. 

I'm not a fan of going after high-priced free agents, but if Johnson hits the market we at least need to bring him in and see where his price tag sits.

But you're dead-on that we're in a good postion to replace Avril and KVB without chasing high $$ free agents. 


DT:  Resigning Williams (at a discounted rate) and (escpecially) Sammie Lee Hill will probably be a priority.  They like the rotation, with Suh and Fairley, and the DT position would continue to be the cornerstone of the defense.
That's exactly how I see it. Don't fix what isn't broken. Williams wants to stay, and is a defensive leader, so as long as the $$ fall into place I see no reason not to bring him back. SLH is one of the few later-round draft picks that have paid off for Mayhew and it's imperative that we keep him on board. He's a starting-caliber DT who will be even more important for us once Williams retires. 


LB:  I do not believe that there will be much of a splash for this position.  They will probably sign either Levy or Durant, and then let Palmer and last year's rookies (Travis Lewis and Tahir Whitehead) fight it out for the final starting position.  I favor Durant over Levy because he's tackles better. They will probably draft another LB in the later rounds to be on special teams and to develop into a depth player
I favor Levy over Durant because of his versatility, but otherwise I agree here, too. 


CB:  This is where I would put my money in FA.  I would really push hard to sign either Sean Smith (if Miami lets him walk without tagging him) or Cary Williams.  If there is any way to sign both (I know, I'm really dreaming), we would be in great shape for the next few years, and would allow last year's picks to really develop.  If they can't get both, I say they will target the other to be Cox as the #2 or possibly Houston.
We really seem to see eye-to-eye on the defense. Williams would be my primary target, then probably DRC, then Cox then Smith. Any of the four would be great additions for us. Take a look at Antoine Cason's stats over his career- he's been an effective starter for the last 3 years, is still pretty young (turns 27 next season), and fits the size/speed mold that we're seeking. He's also not a big-name free agent, so his cost should be pretty reasonable.

I like Houston, but if we can sign Willaims/DRC/Cox/Smith with some of the $$ that we would have used on Houston, then bring in Cason at a good value we'd be miles and miles ahead at the position, imo. 


S: I think they will re-sign Delmas and draft the other starter.  Delmas will not command a huge contract because of his injury concerns, which IMO will have other teams shying away from signing him.  I can see the Lions targeting Jonathon Cyprien out of Fla International in the 3rd round.  From the analysts point of view on the Senior Bowl, he handled himself quite well.  He was a hard hitter in the ground game and was really impressive in pass coverage.  The Lions staff coached him in the Senior Bowl, so they should have gotten a good read on him.
I too think we'll sign Delmas. But if it were my call I'd let him walk. He's a good safety and a leader on the field, but his reckless playing style doesn't lend itself well to staying healthy. Also, he's one of those hitters who can't tackle, which, unfortunately, Schwartz coaches his players to do. That dummy honestly said that he encourages his guys to go for the big hit because there's other guys to make the tackle if the first guy misses. I'm sorry, but I'll take a wrap-up tackler over a hit-or-miss missle like Delmas. 

Take a look at Glover Quinn's numbers, too. I had no idea who he was till I looked him up, and I was blown away at the numbers he's put up. Hidden gem, imo... 
tpaulus_2
SinceApr 2, 2008