Sports and Politics it effects our local teams!

Raburn and Inge still suck....So do liberal state taxes.....NY, California, Illinois, The big three.....Where all the media comes from....NYC, LA and Chicago.....Tie in where media comes from and the state they come from then you have the libearl party......All three states are a huge train wreck when it comes to fiscal respobsiblities....Why does the media live there?


Everytime you elect a lawyer as a president your in trouble......How many lawyers have done you guys right? Obama was nothing but a lawyer hence policy in Illinois and now the U.S. are chaging horribly.


Community oraganizer my butt....He graduated from Harvard as a Lawyer, He had one thing in mind. Be the the biggest Lawyer on earth. He got that and anyone that voted for him, have fun when your 60......Cracks me up, I'll live in Canada or Mexico when I'm 60 before living in this country. I served and protected this country for over a decade. It's a shame that one man could have ruined it so fast. 

That's past tense fellas, the country is wrecked. There's no coming back.  He still has 4 more years to turn us into Greece and Western Europe. If you think taxes are bad now, you got a rude awakening.......Eurpoean countries spend 2/3 of their paycheck on taxes.....For some reason they like it....Maybe it's because they don't have to fund a military anymore now that we pay and take care of it, much like Canada......That's right Canada....I'm saying it.....Life is good because you put a dime a year in your military.....Must be nice then laugh at our health care......

Fun is over America is broke and it can't be fixed without complete bankruptcy....Much like the USSR in the late 80s. That country still isnt back and it's been over 20 years. Welcome to your future young bucks. Might want to find some Russian friends online to talk to and find out how they did it living in that world....Because that is your world America.

I will just take my old butt to the grave and let the next generation realize you have a long road ahead of you, I gave it my best, but your generation just thought free stuff was more important.

Raburn and Inge do indeed still suck.

Beyond that opening statement, none of this post is remotely true... 

Beyond that opening statement, none of this post is remotely true..

Some of it is 100 percent true and factual not opinion. I will indeed live in Mexico or Canada when I'm 60 and I did serve our military for over 10 years. I'll leave the rest to opinion, that's what the boards are for.

Fair enough. I think my post pretty much sums up my opinions as well.

I'm not the least bit impressed w/ the gov't right now either. But the blame can't be put on one guy; both parties are responsible.

Pretty much since the end of WWII politics in this county have spiraled out of control. Even before that guys like J. Edgar Hoover were laying the tracks for government as we know it today.

 

Let me amend that to both parties and apathetic voters are responsible.

Too many  people vote based soley on commercials during campaign season.

If more people would learn the issues and vote according to who best upholds their ideals we'd be much better able to hold politicians (on both sides) to the promises they make while running for office. As it sits now the average American doesn't care enough to do his/her homework on what exactly they're voting for.

People forget that we're in charge of the politicians, not the other way around.

 

And the gov't continues to fail us:

Today we have gov't officials roaming our school testing random students and taking notes on teachers as they peek in from the hallway. Sounds good in theory, right? Unfortunately these people responsible for "grading" the teachers have ZERO experience in the field of education. They are all clerks and assistants who took a 3 DAY course on grading teachers for effectiveness.

That's right, we've all gone to school for 4+ years to learn how to teach, but those grading us on our effectiveness went to school for 3 days to be able to do so.

Just another waste of our tax payer dollars on a system that's too flawed to ever be of any help at all.

Perhaps if they'd spend more time grading parents they'd find the real root of the problems in schools, but I digress... 

Let me amend that to both parties and apathetic voters are responsible.

I'll go even farther on that point:
   IMO the government is being run by the 10% Far Right and 10% Far Left.  They are the loudest, most outspoken, and IMO influence and promote the campaigns of small self interest groups on both extreme sides of the equation.  The 80% majority need to finally get off the rear ends, learn the issues and what is really going, and let their voices be heard, or this nation is going to continue to be in a downward spiral.  I don't really care which side of the aisle the 80% are on, but they are usually more "reasonable" when discussing issues and finding solutions to them. 

 The U.S. Constitution starts with the following:
    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Prosperity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

  The 80% majority needs to stand up, learn the facts, make informed decisions, understand the consequences of their decisions, and not be influenced by others. When this happens, the majority can retake the nation away from these special interest groups and the individuals in government that promote their extreme views.  

On another thought that relates to what IMO is wrong with this nation:
   If people coming to this great nation to live do not want to accept what our nation was founded on, our laws, freedoms, tolerances, and religious beliefs, they can just turn themselves around and go back to where they came from!  Our nation, up until this past half century, was based upon what is "reasonable" and "tolerant" of the individual's beliefs.  Primarily it pertains to our laws and their governance.  The self interest groups have really messed that up.  No one (small) group of individuals should have a greater voice, receive a greater benefit, or promote their own cause to be greater than anyone else.  We need to get back to these basic principles and what our nation was founded on.

We are a nation of equals governed by the people and for the people.  It seems pretty basic, doesn't it?!

Today we have gov't officials roaming our school testing random students and taking notes on teachers as they peek in from the hallway. Sounds good in theory, right? Unfortunately these people responsible for "grading" the teachers have ZERO experience in the field of education. They are all clerks and assistants who took a 3 DAY course on grading teachers for effectiveness

TP,

I agree that the mis-guided way the government is/are currently evaluating teachers is an improper way of implementing a much needed change in the way our educators should be truly evaluated.  Although I am not an educator in the profession, my family has/had many close relatives within the profession over the past century.

IMO there should be a weighted system for evaluating a teacher's effectiveness in the classroom. Based partially on the following criteria:
 - having a tiered management /mentorship program to assist in the development and evaluation of the teacher.  
 - provide tools and technology standards to increase the skills of the educator, and evaluate the individual's ability to utilize these tools in a proper way
 - define expectations for classroom activity from the start to finish of the school year.  This should already be in place, but there should be some mechanism to quantify the expectations
 - the average student improvment in daily pupil assignments and test scores (should be already in place)
 - a defined and weighted evaluation coming parents and students, parental evaluation weighted by parental involvement in the education and development of their child.
 
I am sure there needs to be more criteria to truly evaluate our educators, but this is a start.

And here is the most controversial idea as it relates to teaching, one that should greatly help the educator the most:
  There needs to be some type of disciplinary system available to teachers that eliminates bad behavior and the inability for the teacher to teach the students that want to learn.  Parents better understand that Johnny or Susie is not necessarily the angel they think they are, and the child is going to lie to you to stay out of trouble.  Maybe there needs to be some mechanism built in with the court system for the child and possibly/probably the parent if the behavior issue gets to an extreme.

In my day, if a teacher called a parent, there was no questioning the validity of the issue by the teacher and the school.  There is a reason why the parent was called.  The parent listened to the circumstances and usually supported the teacher/school on the issue.  When they got home, the parent actually acted as a parent as disciplined the child appropriately.  The usual problem child today knows there is no ramification for their bad behavior, so why should they stop. 

Teachers are there to teach children, not be a parent, psychologist, or disciplinarian. 

My biggest concern is the play now we pay later attitude of the country's leaders. If I ran my household like this country runs it's debt they would take my house, cars, and everything I own to pay my debt. I do not believe Master Card would just keep increasing my limit so I could keep charging things.

I said all along stop raising the debt limit and start cutting. If we shut down to get everyone back to the table to come up with a fiscal plan that pays are debts and lowers taxes so businesses can hire more people and grow the ecoomy.

But we can't stop ourselves we have to fund everything down the pipe to level the playing field. So we have to find the source of our funding. The idea we just raise taxes on the rich to pay ther fair share is not a solution as the people that can afford it just move. SO when California doesn't have any millionaires to tax they will start taxing the people making 500,000 a year. Then that won't be eneough and they will tax people making 250,000 and so on.

Athletes are no different than the general public at some point they say I pay eneough and who are they ( the group believing everyone should pay their fair share) to say I need to pay at least 50% of earnings. When they pay nothing? I will go where they don't take that money from me.

In Detroit, easily one of the worst and most racially polarized cities in the country, takes a city tax if you work in the city. Lions, Tigers, and Red Wings all do, but they say you can't vote in local elections so only residents do and they get a whoppin 10% voter turnout. The city has gave millions away from poor management and yet at every turn they have their handout for some state of federal aid. Why would an athlete pass over Dallas or Miami to come to a city that taxes you, a state that taxes you, when they go to play in a better climate with lower taxes!

The whole they need to pay their fair share rings hollow on guys paying hundered of thousands of dollars a year when they see someone not paying anything. I really don't think the guilt trip of why should'nt they pay their fair share holds much water anymore. They are the only ones paying a share at all. When 47% can not pay a dime I am thinking guys that do pay could care less what others think they have their own concerns and yes they have millions but are we now hating on what guys make?

The arguement was always in Free Agency don't hold it against them if the greedy owners pay it to them. Now it's the greedy athletes (rich) that should lookout for the masses. It's a progression and it's why the rich have fled France, the wealthy are leaving California, and why the haves will get more and the halve nots cry louder.  

An interesting side note that bodes well for Michigan is the right to work. Proathletes will not have to join a Union and pay the Union dues. So thats atleast one thing they will have going for them.

There's been some really good and thought provoking conversation here and I applaud all for not letting it degenerate into name calling as so often political discussions can.
Few things I want to say.

TP2 - I happen to agree with you (surprise) on the situation you are dealing with concerning teacher evaluations. It sound like assuming that people that once lived in a house are qualified to decide if the structure is sound and meets code. Evaluating teachers is a very hard thing to do. Alot of the teachers success or failure has to do with the students and I am sure that even though you are most likely a very good teacher (I base this off your presentations here and manner, which is all I have to go on) I am equally sure you have at times run into students simply impossible to get through to.
I think the best way to evaluate teachers is not by the results, but by the effort. If you could watch them in classroom situations without them knowing they were being evaluated you would see which teachers really put forth the effort and which ones kick back and read the funnies or ignore the responsibilities.
But having the gvoernment come in with a group of obviouly unqualified individuals with a few days crash course in "How the government wants you to evaluate teachers" is not a good nor accurate system.
I fear that someday the government will begin evaluating parents based on some governmental criteria. And whicle many parents fall short of their responsibilities in our current culture, perhaps a return to disciplines, morals, values and good ol' fashioned common sense would benefit all.

Muzzer - I hear where you are coming from and its a reaction to the impending feelng that slowly and one by one quietly our freedoms and rights are being eroded. Its this liberal ideal that the state (gevernment) comes before the people and that the people exist to serve the governmental apparatus. Definitely not what this country was founded on and historically proven time and again to fail. People crave freedom like grizzlies crave trout, fans crave beer, and we all crave a Lions Superbowl.

To me fellows this is an era of government intrusion on our lives. Its a dangerous and slippery slope that will eventually end badly.

We should return back to the principles that we were founded under. The Constitution is not a document that lawyers should be finding ways around, its a document they should be adhereing to. It is our foundation and our bedrock. It is not to be interpreted by todays standards and therefore redefined to suit new agendas. It is to be read verbatim and its principles applied. If Amended for any reason then it is done so by the rules the Constitution lays out for such a proceedure.

As stated, "Government for the people, by the people." not People for the Government, by the Government.

IMO there should be a weighted system for evaluating a teacher's effectiveness in the classroom. Based partially on the following criteria:
 - having a tiered management /mentorship program to assist in the development and evaluation of the teacher.  
 - provide tools and technology standards to increase the skills of the educator, and evaluate the individual's ability to utilize these tools in a proper way
 - define expectations for classroom activity from the start to finish of the school year.  This should already be in place, but there should be some mechanism to quantify the expectations
 - the average student improvment in daily pupil assignments and test scores (should be already in place)

These all already exist, but none are an effective way of grading teachers because:

- a defined and weighted evaluation coming parents and students, parental evaluation weighted by parental involvement in the education and development of their child.

This is what we really need, but it won't ever happen because it interferes with basic civil rights. Parents badly need to be evaluated, but that isn't feasable without invading their homes.

Teachers in the average public school will never, ever "pass" any evaluation that the gov't comes up with because there is sooooo many parents that just don't care what their kids do in school. In nicer areas this is drastically less, but in the average public school I'd wager that as much as 25% of the students could care less, and are just there because they have to be. You can't teach kids like that, there's no "reaching them" because the parents put zero emphasis on education.

The conservative politicians (sorry for singleing out a party, but it's the truth in this cas) want you to believe that the teachers are failing students so that they can cut gov't funding to schools, privatize them, and turn a profit. These guys making the laws all send their kids to private schools (which are 1000 times better than public schools), so they don't care what happens in the public ones. They see money to be saved, and money to be made.

The teachers aren't failing the kids, their parents are.

Unfortunately the bulk of the population seems to think otherwise, and people who have no educational training whatsoever, people who have never taught or worked in a school, are now grading us on how effective we are at our jobs. That would be like me deciding to go grade a pediatrician or a coal miner or a hair stylist- it's just not going to produce accurate results.

If the government wants to improve public education they need to crack down on parents who let their kids slide through school. If the kids aren't interested in trying then no ammount of change to the teachers is going to fix that.

As you can tell this is a hot button issue for me, but man does it suck to go to school for 6 years to get woefully underpaid while being told by people with no experience on the subject that we (teachers) aren't doing a good job! Very frustrating...

 

Harrumph!

TP2,
I think the problem is far deeper and messy than that.

The conservative politicians (sorry for singleing out a party, but it's the truth in this cas) want you to believe that the teachers are failing students so that they can cut gov't funding to schools, privatize them, and turn a profit. These guys making the laws all send their kids to private schools (which are 1000 times better than public schools), so they don't care what happens in the public ones. They see money to be saved, and money to be made.

I disagree with your accessment of this totally. It is so easy for others to paint with a broad brush and accuse those of Conservative principles of nothing more than prying for profits. I think within your own comments there is proof otherwise.

You point out that private schools are 1,000 times better than public schools, which is your personal view, and studies seem to back you up on that. An actual 1,000 times maybe a bit much but the concensus seems to be the private schools are far better for kids than traditional government run public schools, you seem to agree. So would it be a bad thing, to make school of choice (which is the real policy that Conservatives push for) available? There are already private schools out there, so their is NO privatization of schools unless by the schools own choice to turn private and leave the governmental system behind. It would set up a system where the best teachers could work for the best schools and get paid accordingly. Those best schools in turn would attract the best students as well as the largest student body. The money to be made in this sytem, as you put it, would be mney now paid to the finest and most achieving teachers as well as able to funnel directly back into that schools system for better facilities, equipment...etc.

While I do agree that many parents are the overall root of the problem with their own children, I also know for a fact and first hand experience that many teachers are failing our children in many ways. I personally have dealt with them on 4 seperate occassions over my sons 10 years in school.

The first being with his preschool teacher, who brought us in to inform us that Josh (my son) had A.D.D. She reasoned this because he didnt respond to her when she called for him often and it was known his hearing was perfect. I did my research on this and found that the more A.D.D. kids in a particular school or facility the more government money they could apply for. My son had no A.D.D. what he suffered from was being 4. So in meeting with this dishonest huckster of a teacher/school manager, Iasked her to prove her case. She took me and josh's mother into the play room, a large room where the kids were having playtime. Josh was at the farthest end and was deeply engrossed in a set of trucks he was playing with. The teacher called out to him, he didnt acknowledge her. She called again and he ignored her. She pointed as if this proved her point. I said to her, "he doesnt have A.D.D. He simply is busy playing and knows if he answers you he will have to stop playing." I then turned and in a soft voice not even above normal speaking volume I said, "Hey Josh." And he immediately turned, saw us and jumped up and ran over. I told the teacher in no uncertain terms her attempt to fraud the system would be reported.

The other incidences were all of teachers preaching political ideaology within the classroom and they have all occurred within the last few years. Twice with Social studies teachers and once with a Science teacher that forgot they were supposed to be teaching science.
Now in the Social studies aspect I had no problem with the cless learning about the process of elections and the Electoral College or campaign finance.... etc etc. Those were and are needed areas of instruction. But in both instances the teachers were heavily pro-one candidate and performed more of what would be called indoctrination rather than instruction to the system. One teacher even gave grading based on if you agreed with her personal political view. One project that I read over after my son received a "F" on it showed that he had follow the criteria for the project 100%. yet had gotten a failing grade because in his project he had come to conclusions both policy driven and personal that conflicted with the teachers view. She even wrote on the the front, "F".... wrong on all accounts. Need to back the right candidate!" And after contacting other parents in the class we found out that every student that back her candidate in the project got A's, even if they had not followed the criteria for the project. All others failed.

Suffice to say we got that cleaned up.

My point is is both parents and teachers in various ways fail the kids.

Private schools tend to be better because parents that shell out cash for tuition tend to be more involved in the childs education. Thats a generalization as alot of public school childeren's parent are involved but on a whole private gets more parental involvement.

Public Schools are one of the last bastion of organized labor in the public sector and unfortunately they have to support the weakest link, fight for tenure of unfit teachers and shell out unusually high retirement beefits for past techers. Not a judgement but just the cost of business and California can atest to the cost in todays dollars what past cost mean.

We now have taxes sneaking into everyday life. The affordable halthcare tax, the hike that was supposed to be just on the richest over $400,000, city taxes, state taxes here in Michigan, now gas tax hike, and I will bail on the State of Michigan the first chance I get to help save a buck.  The same way I will not fault an athlete bailing to save a buck it's not about fair share IMO it's about people being addicted to entitlements and someone needs to pay for them.

Everything Pride and JDW just wrote.....Thumbs up fellas.

and shell out unusually high retirement beefits for past techers.

I'm not really sure where this myth comes from, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's not true at all.