NCAA Investigations

  So much so that the NCAA didn't even bother to actully do an investigation on its own.  Once everyone has gone on trial (for the coverup if you will), I truly believe that said "culture" will be proven to be only a couple of individuals.  If that's the case, and yes it is only my opinion, then PSU has every right to challenge the NCAA decision.


I do not feel the NCAA needed to investigate when PSU gave them the report.  I know many disagree but that is my opinion.  As far as proving the culture was only a couple individuals, I do not see how the legal cases will prove that.  However if it is prove that the leaders had that culture, wouldnt it make sense that that culture would filter down to those that work for those leaders?  
     

That was my only issue, Trojan. The NCAA basically did exactly what they punished Tressel for doing by letting those kids play in the bowl game.   Only difference is Tressel did it to protect the kids and possibly give himself a better chance to win, while the NCAA did what they did because of money.

Funny analogy on what the NCAA did to tOSU that came from my son.

I told him about the tOSU situation and what the NCAA did re: the bowl game. He got a confused look on his face for a minute and then said: "That would be like me calling you and asking if I can stay out an hour past my curfew, you saying it's okay and then grounding me for being out past my curfew"!!

All I could do was laugh!!

The NCAA did not vacate the win.  tOSU vacated the win but on the NCAA website it is still a win for tOSU, not vacated.

And if you look on the NCAA website, it also still shows USC as the BCS champion for 2004. Does anyone think that USC was NOT stripped of that title or that win was NOT vacated? I can tell you that the Crystal Football is no longer in Heritage Hall and the 2004 National Championship is listed at USC as an AP National Championship and not a BCS National Championship.

So yes, it has been vacated.

Heck, I'd have to go back and look, but I think the NCAA still lists Reggie Bush as a Heisman Trophy winner to.

I told him about the tOSU situation and what the NCAA did re: the bowl game. He got a confused look on his face for a minute and then said: "That would be like me calling you and asking if I can stay out an hour past my curfew, you saying it's okay and then grounding me for being out past my curfew"!!


I do like that, you can never argue with the logic of a child. 


I think the better analagy from my child like brain would be if you kid was caught stealing and told you that it was only once.  You then grounded him but let him go to the prom.  After prom you find out that it was an ongoing thing and more happened than you knew.  You then grounded him longer for what you found out after and the lies.  And of course told him that even though he went to the dance it didnt count. hahaha      

I do not feel the NCAA needed to investigate when PSU gave them the report.  I know many disagree but that is my opinion.  As far as proving the culture was only a couple individuals, I do not see how the legal cases will prove that.  However if it is prove that the leaders had that culture, wouldnt it make sense that that culture would filter down to those that work for those leaders? 

And this is the biggest reason why PSU is suing.  The NCAA didn't investigate on it's own.  Now the legal cases aren't so much about proving the culture was a couple of individuals but rather proving that the culture even existed.  The current verdict if you will implies that for 15 years (roughly) the faculty knew about this every year, the whole athetic department knew about this every year, all the athletes knew about this every year, and the whole of the student body knew about this every year---THAT would be a culture of deception. I don't believe any sane person would buy that.  And no there couldn't be any "filter down" as you put it.  If you're going to pull off a con of this magnitude, the fewer people that know the better. 

I think the better analagy from my child like brain would be if you kid was caught stealing and told you that it was only once.  You then grounded him but let him go to the prom.  After prom you find out that it was an ongoing thing and more happened than you knew.  You then grounded him longer for what you found out after and the lies.  And of course told him that even though he went to the dance it didnt count. hahaha

I agree. That's better. I love the "even though he went to the dance, it didn't count" part!!   

The current verdict if you will implies that for 15 years (roughly) the faculty knew about this every year, the whole athetic department knew about this every year, all the athletes knew about this every year, and the whole of the student body knew about this every year---THAT would be a culture of deception. I don't believe any sane person would buy that.  And no there couldn't be any "filter down" as you put it.  If you're going to pull off a con of this magnitude, the fewer people that know the better. 


I dont think the NCAA meant culture of deception, I think they mean footbal first culture.  So I do think the football first culture can filter down.  As far as the crime, no I do not think that many people knew officially, but I bet many suspected.   

And this is the biggest reason why PSU is suing.  The NCAA didn't investigate on it's own.  Now the legal cases aren't so much about proving the culture was a couple of individuals but rather proving that the culture even existed.  The current verdict if you will implies that for 15 years (roughly) the faculty knew about this every year, the whole athetic department knew about this every year, all the athletes knew about this every year, and the whole of the student body knew about this every year---THAT would be a culture of deception. I don't believe any sane person would buy that.  And no there couldn't be any "filter down" as you put it.  If you're going to pull off a con of this magnitude, the fewer people that know the better. 

The Universtiy of Penn State is not suing the NCAA.  Penn State has accepted their punishment and is trying to move on.

However, ....The 'State' of Pennsylvania is suing the NCAA.

Led by none other than the guy that could be ultimately responsible for Sandusky running wild for over a decade in Happy Valley while he pushed to become governor of the great state of Pennsylvania.  And yes, he IS the current Governor of Pennsylvania.  Tom Corbett.  Stand up guy he is.

As for the con of the "fewer people that know the better..".  At least you finally got something right.
    
   

   

I dont think the NCAA meant culture of deception, I think they mean footbal first culture.  So I do think the football first culture can filter down.  As far as the crime, no I do not think that many people knew officially, but I bet many suspected   As far as the crime, no I do not think that many people knew officially, but I bet many suspected

 I think they mean footbal first culture.  So I do think the football first culture can filter down.

So,, what major college football program to an extent, doesn't put football first?  And as OC HUSKER reminded me it's the state of PENN. that's suing the NCAA not PSU (like it's a big difference), and they are suing primarily to defend the reputation of the school.....NOT the handful of corrupt indiviuals that covered up this problem.  Again, because the NCAA didn't do their own investigation and relied solely on the Freeh report, they don't have many ducks in the pond to defend themselves with.  
 
This so called culture could be defended or denied by a handful of individuals who have yet to go to trial.  The one that could probably give us the most information is dead.  If all those that go to trial are in fact found guilty, does that mean there was this HUGE culture of football first?  And that it merited the huge sanctions that the NCAA gave them?  If any or all of those yet to be tried are found innocent, where does that leave the NCAA?  I'll tell you where, standing on a foundation built on sand. 

This whole issue especially with PSU, and ellupo, I was aware of the "article" from the NCAA bylaws on conduct--it's broad based gibberish.  And again that is why not only why USC, PSU & OSU should re-look into their sanctions

      
  

As for the con of the "fewer people that know the better..".  At least you finally got something right.

The only thing you go right is that you're a Husker fan....other than that you logic stinks.

This so called culture could be defended or denied by a handful of individuals who have yet to go to trial.  The one that could probably give us the most information is dead.  If all those that go to trial are in fact found guilty, does that mean there was this HUGE culture of football first?  And that it merited the huge sanctions that the NCAA gave them?  If any or all of those yet to be tried are found innocent, where does that leave the NCAA?  I'll tell you where, standing on a foundation built on sand. 


I disagree, if they are all found guilty all that proves is they lied, noting about the culture.  I they are found not guilty that just proves there was not enough evidence to convict.  Neither of these outcomes has anything to do with the culture, if it exist or not.  


You are right the "article" is broad based but as I have said I think the punishment was wrong.  The NCAA should have kicked PSU out of the NCAA and had them work to get readmitted.  This is just like a player who breaks the rules of the organization. I do not agree with the punishment but there should have been punishment from the NCAA to PSU.       

I cannot stand the NCAA and their rules infraction comittee. Ex LSU basketball coach DALE BROWN went toe to toe with them. Dale got so flabbergasted with them he called them a bunch of Gestapo BSTERDS in a Sports Illustrated article, during his ongoing battle.
From that time forward they hounded ol DADDY DALE til he became ineffective. He was never a good X and O coach, but DALE could spin a yarn( he had a lot of good BS with him) but any coach that couldnt win even an SEC title with SHAQ, Stanley Roberts, and Chris Jackson tells you something is wrong.
 The NCAA gave the LSU cagers the worst punishment ever handed down to a basketball program before or since. It was close to the DEATH PENALTY, SMU got in football!
The program survived, even went to a FINAL 4 afterwards, but it ruined DALE!

I said all that to say, It has to be a fine, dangerous line to walk when confronting and challenging the NCAA. Sometimes it has to be "principles be damned"  
They hold all the cards and I dont remember them losing, EVER!

Dont do a DADDY DALE! 

I disagree, if they are all found guilty all that proves is they lied, noting about the culture.  I they are found not guilty that just proves there was not enough evidence to convict.

So, who/what then was the culture that has been talked about.  I've said before if "that" many people were trying to cover this up, and there is as of yet after all this time, no proof there ever was a large number of people in said coverup culture, if there were alot of people in the coverup culture, this big of a secret could not have been kept quiet for as long as it has been.