OKSt. @KU...

EJ must light up a doobie before every game....would certainly explain the blank look on his face and lack of focus that has lead to such bad performances all year.

If I were the coach I'd keep the starting lineup as is. I would however bring in Ellis and Tharpe sooner, probably at the first TV time out. Can't go away from EJ. He was so clutch last year in the tourney.   

EJ must light up a doobie before every game

He does. Bastyd is his dealer. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I missed the game today. They have been winning ugly for 3 or 4 weeks now, so a game like this was inevitable. However, it's not time to panic. There are still 6-7 weeks left to figure things out before the tournament starts and personally, I would rather see them go into the tournament as a 2 seed anyway. I know that goes against the grain with what many of you think, and certainly against the grain statistically when looking at seed records. But I personally think KU overall plays more relaxed and looser when not burdened with a 1 seed. 08 was just a statistical outlier.

On a good note, it's only the 2nd Los of the season and only by 5 points. If you go back and check out KU,s schedule it hints that the Jayhawks are only playing to the strength of there opponent. We don't win or lose by very much. KU has struggled with low scoring lately. They manage to get 80 points tonight but lose by 5. They are letting the other teams set the pace of the game. At least that's the way it seems. Maybe I just need to vent a little. GO KU!!!

Yeah, Sonny, lots of time left.  Personally I always felt like this team was going to lose 3-4 conference games.  Didn't think one of them was going to be against OSU at home but KU, like a lot of teams, lose a game or two every year that makes you scratch your head.

When teams win they get confidence and when they win ugly, like KU has, it gives you a false sense of confidence.  This should bring this team (hopefully) back to earth a little bit and make them realize they gotta step it up a notch and regain some of that early season form. 

I'd really like to see White in there more....dudes got a silky smooth shot and handles the ball pretty well.  I'm sure he's not seeing more time because some D issues but the guy has a silky smooth shot and I'd like to see him take some of EJ's minutes that are clearly being wasted.  Ellis has also shown some series inside/outside game but I'm sure his D is keeping him on the bench.  For the sake of the offense, because the D is pretty good even if it was off some today, these two guys can be a major factor in getting this thing turned around. 

I concur...but our perimeter defense has been exposed by more than just this team...I recall Iowa St. lighting us upon the same floor form three and their bigs hitting a decent amount of mid-range jumpers while Withey stood and watched.  


Personally, I would change it up vs perimeter oriented teams, stick on the 3, and FORCE them to bring it to Withey or take REALLY bad 3 point shots. We all knew this was capable of happening and OK St was one of those teams that was mentioned that could get hot enough to beat us if we allowed them to shoot 3's. Now they cooled off from 3 in the 2nd half but we were in scramble mode and they had belief and momentum and started doing well inside the arc. 


Offense isn't really the reason we lost this game, but it's past time for a philosophy change for this team. Last year we had very similar issues with the perimeter guys and turnovers, the difference was we had a dominant inside force that had to be accounted for. The more recent set of guards TT, EJ, BMac, and Tharpe just don't have it in them to consistently make good passes in this system. I'm not faulting Self's system, he just doesn't have the right kind of guys for it right now. Last year we survived it because we had a dominant inside presence.....this year we don't have that and we need to tweak it to maximise the shooting/scoring of BMac and the penetrating abilities of EJ,Tharpe, and Releford. EJ was bad again and is just not comfortable in this system as the PG.


Young still will have a key role on this team and Eliis/Traylor will get their minutes, but I think their should be certain games from here on out where we utilize a 4 guard lineup for a good portion of the game and White should see more minutes than Young/Traylor/Ellis in those particular games. Having another pure shooter will really help the offense and the defense will still be dynamite. This will be particularly effective and a great time to use when the other team has a non threat at the 4 position that White can guard. Thoughts on any of this?

Bill Self's postgame comments show that he is as frustrated as we are with the play the last few weeks. I am willing to bet that this team comes out with a purpose in the near future. This team played at an elite level early in the year and they can return to that form they just need to be re-energized and maybe a home loss with do it.

Regarding EJ, I'm not too worried but don't know if he can match last year's production/efficiency as the PG in THIS system. I could definitley see an early end too our season if we don't make a change in the offense. EJ can run the 2 and he could run the 1 in another system, but not this one.


Just don't get down on him because remember all the TT bashing last year....yeah he scored more to make up for the bonehead mistakes, but come tourney time he shot 9/36 (25%) with 12 TO's in the wins against NC ST, OSU, and Purdue. So besides the 1st round Detroit game, the only win he came up big was against UNC. We can't judge Elijah until his final tourney and I really hope by then  the system has been tweaked to better utilize his strengths and weaknesses when he's at the PG. (Because there is no putting him at the 2 unless Releford is the 4).

idiot, I think it has nothing to do with being re-energized or refocused or NEEDING a loss...the energy is fine. This has been going on for a month...and not necessarily today, but overall Self has got to start considering that putting a guy like White out there for bigger minutes over a guy I really like (Young) in certain games will help the offense much more than it will hurt the defense....where as right now there are times where a guy like Young is hurting the offense more than he is helping on D/energy (which is alot at times and is why he is still needed in many games).

"Regarding EJ, I'm not too worried but don't know if he can match last year's production/efficiency as the PG in THIS system. I could definitley see an early end too our season if we don't make a change in the offense."

It's not the damn system. It's the physically and mentally lazy execution of the system that is the problem.

"We can't judge Elijah until his final tourney and I really hope by then  the system has been tweaked to better utilize his strengths and weaknesses when he's at the PG. "

EJ hasn't shown any strengths at the PG position. He hasn't shot well, he hasn't driven to the rim enough. When he does finally drive he hasn't finished at the rim well. He hasn't valued possession of the ball. He makes terrible decisions with the ball. He doesn't move well without the ball. That pretty much covers all the skills there are and he has sucked at them all this year.

I am serious that KU should drug test him right now. He looked stoned out there. He played like an inexperienced, clueless freshman out the while the freshman PG on the other team played like a veteran leader. I am totally dumbfounded as to what is wrong with EJ. It is mindboggling just how terrible he has been for the vast majority of this season.

"idiot, I think it has nothing to do with being re-energized or refocused or NEEDING a loss...the energy is fine. This has been going on for a month...and not necessarily today, but overall Self has got to start considering that putting a guy like White out there for bigger minutes over a guy I really like (Young) in certain games will help the offense much more than it will hurt the defense....where as right now there are times where a guy like Young is hurting the offense more than he is helping on D/energy (which is alot at times and is why he is still needed in many games). "

God you're clueless... Yeah, maybe White can guard a 6'9" forward, THAT will end well. White has been out there and has shot the ball like a guy from out of the stands for the most part. His shot may look pretty but pretty only counts when he MAKES them. If Whiote was playing well enough in practice he would be out there more...

The good thing is KU has a great defense. So they are going to be in every game, regardless of who they play unless the opposing team gets so hot from beyond the arc that they can launch them from half-court (which can happen). Self definitely needs to do some tweeking on offense. They have looked anemic, offensively,  the past month. They still have some time to work things out.

Can't come up with the exact specific games but it seems like most KU's teams as of late have had at least one "huh???" loss that seemingly grabbed the teams attention and got them refocused.  This is one of those losses that can serve the same purpose.  Hopefully it does and leads to something great down the road.

Dang, I knew we'd lose some, but I didn't think it would be at Allen Fieldhouse.  Well, rather, I hoped it wouldn't be at Allen Fieldhouse.  That being said, Oklahoma State is a pretty good team.  But again that being said, we were ahead with like 5 minutes to go, weren't we?  We just blew it when we had the opportunity to shut out Okie State the last few minutes to pull out the win.  Kind of like our other loss this season.  

As others have said, hopefully this will pull the guys together and make them realize they've got to minimize those silly mistakes.  I'm still being positive though - there's no way our run of good play in December was a fluke.  We've got to get that together, and soon, especially if we want to have a chance to win on the road in this conference (and at home against better teams, apparently).  I'm finally beginning to become concerned, although I am hoping they will pull it together here soon.  

EJ is not an elite point guard.  Will not, can not play the position.  I don't know about the sg position at this point.  He doesn't look right this year.  Slow, uninspired, and just plain looks lazy on the court.  I hate to run down a kid, but he has not been the sharpest knife in the drawer since arriving here.  He has always lacked disicipline, and always made bad passes.  He can shoot, but not well enough to be a serious threat.  He is out of shape.  Not a smart ball player. 

Oklahoma St brought it too us today.  Withey wasn't ready for it at the start.  No one was.  The Cowboys have some players.  If they had Withey, they would be my pick to win the whole  thing this year(Big 12 ).  They can score and their defense is pretty darn effective for the most part.  Chuck and Duck style isn't for me, but they are a good solid team that can hurt you chucking or driving. 

Lets be fair here.  Self has repeated this one comment all year long" Our margin for error is very slim this year"  Do you guys think he was blowing smoke up our rears or maybe he is telling us that this team is not all that!  We are still a Top 10 team this year.  No doubt.  But we arent a Top 2 yet, we weren't last year either.  Matchups in the NCAA tourney led too us getting to the FInal game.  Matchups.

You know our non con schedule last year prepared us for battles.  UK kicking our tail, Duke beating us in a tough hard fought game.  Beating G-Town in a hard fought game.  Getting Ohio St at the Phog.  These game all prepared that team to win during the tourney.  This years team hasn't been battled tested by big boys.  We were tested against some smaller fish, but we haven't really played in tehe ocean yet with the big fish.  MSU an OSU have been the best we have played.  1-1 against the Big Tens 3rd or 4th best teams. 

Guard play!  Guard Play!  Who would have thought  this year we would lack guard play?  Releford shoulld move to point, Mclemore to the sg and bring in White with Withey and Young.  Tharpe isn't much of an improvement over EJ.  Adams?  I think Adams is as gifted as anyone, give him a shot to at least make simple chest passes to the corner without throwing it 15 rows up in the crowd.

Did I read someone thinks that Ellis is a better rebounder ?  He isn't tough enough yet, Traylor is a far more aggressive player.  Listen, we got outplayed today by a very atheletic team.  I think the Cowboys will be a tough out come March.  Yes they lack big guys, but you don't need a ton of big guys when you have shooters in every spot on the court. 

Mclemore  the number one Draft pick?  Smart and or Brown were the best two players on that court today.........! 

Bench EJ.  Young should be not be a starter either, but I love the guys hustle and heart.  Its time to get Traylor and Ellis those minutes.  White and ADams need to see the court more as well. Its time to get some new blood on the court. 

Releford tries, and is our backbone right now. 

Our most atheletic starting lineup consists of :  Ellis, Traylor, Releford, Mclemore and Adams.  Start 4 freshmen and one senior.  Unfortunately they are not ready.  Does anyone think that Adams, a true freshmen would make as many mistakes as EJ does?  Tharpe is a non factor for me.  Good, nice little player.  Non factor.  Bench player at best when you see the talent sitting there waiting for next year. 

Withey belongs in a zone setup.  Clog the middle and swat shots when they enter the lane.  There is a reason Boeheim plays a zone and recruits biggs.  I know Self is a m2m guy.  This years squad may not be a m2m team.  At least if we want to use Withey on D.  I am a m2m guy, dont get me wrong.  I also can see that Withey being drawn away from basket is a huge advantage for the other team.  We don't have Trob out there cleaning up the glass.  Ellis, Young and Traylor cant combine to make up for what TRob did last year on either end yet. 

Lets not forget, most on here last year were ready to can TT early in the season.  He had some horrific games on both ends.  I was one of them.  Many on here were one of them.  I honestly don't see EJ making that adjustment right now.  TT somehow made some adjustments and became a smarter player.  I don't know if players got him turned around or coaches, but what ever did it, needs to happen again!

Let me remind everyone once again " The margin for error this season is very thin line for us to have success"  a quote from Self.  A quote he has said over and over again since the first day of practice.  That may not be word for word, but you get the idea.

We are 19-2.  We haven't played nearly at our best yet and not nearly at our worst yet.  2 losses.  19 wins.  If todays game doesn't get some attention from this team, then nothing will.  Its a good loss I guess if things  turnaround some.  I hate that, but sometimes it takes a loss to get everyone on the same page.  If a home loss doesn't do that, then this team is truly braindead.

"Regarding EJ, I'm not too worried but don't know if he can match last year's production/efficiency as the PG in THIS system. I could definitley see an early end too our season if we don't make a change in the offense."

It's not the damn system. It's the physically and mentally lazy execution of the system that is the problem. 

"We can't judge Elijah until his final tourney and I really hope by then  the system has been tweaked to better utilize his strengths and weaknesses when he's at the PG. "

EJ hasn't shown any strengths at the PG position. He hasn't shot well, he hasn't driven to the rim enough. When he does finally drive he hasn't finished at the rim well. He hasn't valued possession of the ball. He makes terrible decisions with the ball. He doesn't move well without the ball. That pretty much covers all the skills there are and he has sucked at them all this year. 

I am serious that KU should drug test him right now. He looked stoned out there. He played like an inexperienced, clueless freshman out the while the freshman PG on the other team played like a veteran leader. I am totally dumbfounded as to what is wrong with EJ. It is mindboggling just how terrible he has been for the vast majority of this season. 


Look, just because it's a good proven system does not mean it fits every single player he recruits. Do you think it's just coincidence that guys like TT,EJ,Tharpe all have trouble running the PG even at the college level and that so many other star perimeter recruits such as Henry, Selby, and even McClemore all seem to either underperform or appear uncomfortable. Sure it's a negative on EJ that he isn't a good pg in this system, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective in a different pg role or that we should keep pushing a square peg in a round hole just because it's worked before. 


These guys are taught to pass and pass quick and not to let the ball stick. I love the ball not sticking way that Self coaches, however weather it's these recent players or teams adjusting to what KU does, this has caused numerous TO's from ill-advised quick passes where the players sometimes only give half a look or the D is ready and overplaying. Very rarely when we're swinging the ball does a player attack the basket when the D is off guard or recovering. If we can just get these players to give a good pass fake when it isn't an easy pass and quickly change direction and penetrate the other way that would really reduce the TO's and increase good scoring opportunities. More of our turnovers come from passing than dribbling, but we also don't want to be one of those teams that yo-yo's the ball in place, so if the pass isn't there quickly attack...or some use of the dribble drive offense would probly utilize the talents of EJ and Tharpe much better. Possibly more back doors if in fact teams are overplaying these perimeter passes.

Wait...you called me CLUELESS because I said White should be out there at CERTAIN times instead of Young, like when the other team is small or their 4 man isn't a threat? We already play a 4 guard lineup with Tharpe instead of Young, but i'm clueless because I suggested White instead of Young. LOL, you never cease to crack me up. White may be a below average defender, but as long as he puts in the effort shouldn't he be given a chance to play more in the situations I described? Wouldn't it seem logical that in those instances he potentially can do far more good than bad if he can hit the outside shot? I never once mentioned putting him in against a 6-9 post player. Get a grip.

GoKU, what the heck is up with suggesting a zone D? We already have the best D as it is...your athletic hypothetical lineup doesn't make sense either...Withey is just as athletic as Ellis and his height puts the on court margin in his favor. EJ would also be in the all-athletic lineup and the suggestion of TRel at PG is confusing.