The Case for Abolition of Religion

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Well how can I turn that down?  What's your thread?

If you can't prove it either way, what makes you think it's a lie? 

What makes me think the Zoo Boat is a lie?  What makes me think demons, giants and cockatrices are a lie?

I don't know, what makes you think fire breathing dragons are a lie?  You can't prove Santa doesn't exist...what makes you think he doesn't?

It's plainly obvious that the stories of the holy books are not based in fact.  Presenting them as such is a lie.  If I told my kids the story of Star Wars actually happened long, long ago, I'd be lying to them, despite the fact that no one can prove those events didn't occur.

Besides, the same stories were presented to you as a child and you still made your own decision about it right? 

Yes, but it took me a long, long time to reject my indoctrination.  Much of my youth was spent in constant fear of God watching me, struggling with weird ideas about sex.  And even when I finally started to reject it, for a time I was fraught with guilt and uncertainty...made to feel like I was a bad person.  Many former theists tell the same story.

When I finally woke up and realized I'd been fed a pack of steaming horse pucky, it was the greatest, most freeing moment of my life.  I've been a far happier person since then, and I only wish that for everyone.

I hear your point here though...and truth is. more and more kids are rejecting their parents indoctrination.  Partially they are able to do this because it's OK for atheists to speak out these days.

Doesn't science teach us to see all sides and review all evidence to create a hypothesis?

No.  Science doesn't teach us to see all sides when some of the sides include things like magic and demons and divine intervention.  As I said before, when NASA plans a trip to the moon, they do not include "what if God blows on the rocket and sends it off course" in their calculations.

Yes, but it took me a long, long time to reject my indoctrination.  Much of my youth was spent in constant fear of God watching me, struggling with weird ideas about sex.  And even when I finally started to reject it, for a time I was fraught with guilt and uncertainty...made to feel like I was a bad person.  Many former theists tell the same story.

Now we're getting to the heart of your issue with the church.  You blame your own feelings of guilt on someone else instead of taking responsibility for yourself.

Science doesn't teach us to see all sides when some of the sides include things like magic and demons and divine intervention. 

Inaccurate.  Science teaches us to investiage all possibilities no matter how far fetched. 

  As I said before, when NASA plans a trip to the moon, they do not include "what if God blows on the rocket and sends it off course" in their calculations.

You don't know this.

  I only get angry when people shove their sky daddy in my face. 

You need Jesus.

Not suprised you didn't take the bait on this one Jason.  Weak effort on my part.

A) Religion didn't do anything.  Like you said, it was the "bully-mob of Christian idiots".

It's the religious thinking that still infects most Americans that is to blame.  If there were no Christians, there wouldn't have been anyone protesting scientific research.

B) You're making a huge assumption that stem cell research will have any effect on cerebral palsy and MS.

I am, but we'll never know until we do the reaserch.  If Christians had their way, the reaserch would be illegal and we'd never find out.

That's reason enough for me to "care what other people think", which was your question to me.  "What other people think" could prevent a loved one from being cured.  "What other people think" could quite literally kill millions.

What makes me think the Zoo Boat is a lie?  What makes me think demons, giants and cockatrices are a lie?

I'm not talking about Biblical stories.  I'm talking about God.

So you don't need science either than? 

Need it?  Interesting question.  How basic are we getting?  Learning is, essentially, all science.  Trial and error, observation of how things work, etc.

So whether or not we "need" it, we are helpless to avoid it, at least in the sense I used above.

 It would seem to me, that some day, you're gonna say, "What the hell am I doing?"

That day has come and gone, and will likely come again, lol.

Now we're getting to the heart of your issue with the church.  You blame your own feelings of guilt on someone else instead of taking responsibility for yourself.

Of course I do, you can't blame a 4 year old child for believing what their parents teach them.  You can't expect a developing child to "take responsibility for themselves."

Inaccurate.  Science teaches us to investiage all possibilities no matter how far fetched. 

Really.  How many scientists do you suppose are working on the cure for cancer that involves chanting to Kokopelli?

Maybe chanting to Kokopelli holds the cure for cancer...you can't prove it doesn't.  Still, any scientist would laugh at you if you suggested such a thing.

You don't know this.

I don't know that NASA doesn't include "God's breath" in their trajectory calculations?  I most certainly do know that.

I'm not talking about Biblical stories.  I'm talking about God.

Well I'm talking about Biblical stories.  One third of all Americans teach their kids that the Zoo Boat was literally true.  Would you agree then that one-third of all Americans lie in this regard?

Deists are not lying. Theists are lying.

  If there were no Christians, there wouldn't have been anyone protesting scientific research.

But there would still be religion. 

 If Christians had their way, the reaserch would be illegal and we'd never find out.

Ok.  Maybe the title of this thread should read, The Case for Abolition of Christianity.  Of course, the Romans tried that and look where it got them.

 "What other people think" could prevent a loved one from being cured.  "What other people think" could quite literally kill millions.

It has.  Ever heard of abortion? 

Need it?  Interesting question.  How basic are we getting?  Learning is, essentially, all science.  Trial and error, observation of how things work, etc.

But you said you don't seek answers.

That day has come and gone, and will likely come again, lol.

So you DO seek answers.

Really.  How many scientists do you suppose are working on the cure for cancer that involves chanting to Kokopelli?

Maybe chanting to Kokopelli holds the cure for cancer...you can't prove it doesn't.  Still, any scientist would laugh at you if you suggested such a thing.

Don't be suprised if they've already tried that.

I don't know that NASA doesn't include "God's breath" in their trajectory calculations?  I most certainly do know that.

You don't know they haven't tested for that possiblility

  One third of all Americans teach their kids that the Zoo Boat was literally true.  Would you agree then that one-third of all Americans lie in this regard?

In same way more than that teach their kids Santa is real.  And the Easter Bunny is real.  It's just a childrens story and not harmful.  I'm sure you don't get as pissed about Santa.

How about an adult that believes the WWE is real? 

What?

lol. Like a child when you tell them that Santa Claus isn't real.

Ever heard of abortion?

I have.  It's awesome. 

But there would still be religion. 

Ok.  Maybe the title of this thread should read, The Case for Abolition of Christianity.  Of course, the Romans tried that and look where it got them.

Maybe it should...I would add Islam and Judaism at the very least to those two.

But sure, if you show me a religion that isn't based on fantasy and lies, I very likely won't protest it or hate it.  I mean, you insist atheism is a religion, so in your view I obviously don't hate ALL religions because I don't hate atheism.

It has.  Ever heard of abortion?

Well there you go then...you should realize how silly it is to ask someone why they "care what other people think."  It's kind of a simplistic view to say you shouldn't care what other people think, when what other people think can have dramatic effect.

In same way more than that teach their kids Santa is real.  And the Easter Bunny is real.  It's just a childrens story and not harmful.  I'm sure you don't get as pissed about Santa.

It's funny how most people can grow past Santa but not Gwwaaaad-a. 

Maybe it should...I would add Islam and Judaism at the very least to those two.

But sure, if you show me a religion that isn't based on fantasy and lies, I very likely won't protest it or hate it.  I mean, you insist atheism is a religion, so in your view I obviously don't hate ALL religions because I don't hate atheism.

Starting to find some common ground here.

  It's kind of a simplistic view to say you shouldn't care what other people think, when what other people think can have dramatic effect.

Ok.

It's funny how most people can grow past Santa but not Gwwaaaad-a. 

Many people choose not to believe in God.  You did.

In same way more than that teach their kids Santa is real.  And the Easter Bunny is real.  It's just a childrens story and not harmful.  I'm sure you don't get as pissed about Santa.

I damn sure would be pissed about Santa if 100 millon American adults still believed Santa was real.  And I maintain that any adults who DO still believe Santa is real should be mocked right the frak off the planet.

Anyone who wouldn't mock an adult Santa believer, IMO, is a politically correct pantywaste.

If at some point parents admited to their children that the religious stories they were told were just metaphors for living a good life, I would have no problem with it.