A's Make HUGE MISTAKE

Where does the reporter who wrote this think Rodriguez will actually fit into our 'pen?

He'll probably write an article saying how great Jesse Chavez is as well. lol.

I commented on a thread supporting Alex Smith and got flamed on by a bunch of Kap homers that couldn't understand why someone could support a guy that was playing extremely well and only lost his job to injury.

Riiight,

So the whole crapernick thing and flaming harbaugh wasnt you?

I guess Billy Beane is just a moron lets fire him now. Guess we all forgot 2012 already.

The one good thing about trades is that years from now well know if this turned out really bad or not.

Also BP i find it amusing that your using trades like Cruz and Either as example of Beane mistakes. Last offseason when i was pissed at Beane about the willingham non-signing and brought those trades up as examples of beane mistakes you argued in favor of them.

Also BP i find it amusing that your using trades like Cruz and Either as example of Beane mistakes. Last offseason when i was pissed at Beane about the willingham non-signing and brought those trades up as examples of beane mistakes you argued in favor of them.

You will never find a SINGLE POST from me that shows me arguing in favor of the Nelson Cruz trade.

As for Ethier, I said it 'made sense at the time' the trade was made. However, that still doesn't take away from the fact that Beane hasn't developed a position player since Nick Swisher and has constantly traded away our guys before they can develop. It's a simple fact.

I guess Billy Beane is just a moron lets fire him now. Guess we all forgot 2012 already.

Is this your argument for everything? The track record speaks for itself when it comes to developing position players and drafting. Sure, he can develop pitching. That kept us in it in 2012. And when it comes to trading, he is pretty much hit or miss. For every great trade we have, we have a bad one as well.

It’s been a couple of days since the trade was announced and I still can’t figure out WTF**** happened.

Without looking back on previous deals and/or comparing players’ stats, this is basically what I’m seeing. We got rid of one of our best (in terms of raw power), if not the best HR threat, a projected future starting pitcher and a catching prospect with nice upside (that hasn’t been completely tapped due of injury) for a utility player and a short reliever with a career ERA a tick under 5.00. Now, who in their right mind would ever agree to this!?

We can all speculate about how this deal makes any sense--what positional adjustments need to be made; is another move in the works, etc.--and argue why it doesn’t make any sense at all. But I want to hear the reasoning behind it from the horse’s mouth. I recall Beane saying that aside from a couple of tweaks the team would be pretty much be staying intact. I, for one, was happy he when made that declaration. So, even with the understanding that Drew and McCarthy would have been too expensive, I guess he was just providing lip service because today’s pre-spring training team already feels very different.

GONE (big contributors to last year’s success):
Chris Carter
Brandon McCarthy
Stephen Drew
Jonny Gomes
Brandon Inge
George Kottaras

NEW (projected to be a big part of ‘13):
Chris Young
Hiroyuki Nakajima
John Jaso
Jed Lowrie
Scott Sizemore (not technically, but he didn’t play)

From reading this thread’s posts so far, it’s clear that none of us fans are in favor of this trade. The different levels that each of us feels about it is causing us to get sort of off topic. As always, the love for our team(s) brings out our emotions in a very passionate way...which I think is great, even when our opinions differ. My two cents ends by saying that I hate this trade, but only time will tell if it’s a good one or not.

And as always, go A’s!

Peacock's numbers (other than era) look no different than previous seasons.

WHIP and (more specifically) walk rate? He went from pretty much three straight years of ~2.8 BB/9IP then all of a sudden that number jumped to 4.4 BB/9IP when he hit AAA. His last three years K/BB rate are 3.15, 3.77, 2.11.

The first thing I do when I see a drastic jump in ERA like we saw last year from Peacock is look for other statistical causes. I would expect moving to the PCL to raise stats like H/9IP, opponents slugging percentage, etc. and to find those to be the cause of a sudden increase in ERA. When I see an apparent control issue surface out of nowhere it raises questions.

Like I said before, I don't understand the trade. It looks incredibly lopsided and doesn't make any sense...

But then I think about it from another angle: (yes this is about to sound completely insane) Maybe Beane is setting up a future trade, creating a situation where he can call in an IOU from the Astros in the future...

Yeah, I know crazy and unlikely. I'm probably grasping at straws, but I have to because of how pointless this seems.

The track record speaks for itself

Couldnt have said it better myself Since beane took over we have had 10 out of 15 seasons with a record at .500 or above and have been in the bottom third of the league in payroll the entire time. Please show me antoher GM that has done that. Im not in the "Beane is the best GM ever group" but i think he has done a good job with what he has had to work with. All GM's make bad moves but Beane has made more good than bad. Look at his trade record. Hes made more good trades in his 15 years then he has bad ones. This will go in the bad catagory most likely.

 Please show me antoher GM that has done that. 

Easy. Andrew Friedman first one that comes to mind.

Ok you came up with one. So that makes two GM's that have been able to do it. Although Friedman is oranges and apples to Beane. He took over a team in 2006 that had a stacked Farm due to having a top 5 pick from 1998 to 2006 when he took over. Lets see him sustaine success for another 8 years.

Wow... okay, let's not get ahead of ourselves here...

Chris Carter is not an All-Star first baseman, and Brad Peacock is not an All-Star pitcher... and Max Stassi... we have no idea what he is yet, he may be nothing... so let's just relax.

Chris Carter finally "showed up" last year, and had a WAR below 1... that would shoe him in as a AAAA player (Lowrie's was over 2)

Chris Carter K's about 1/3 PA's... Lowrie, 1/6.

Go ahead hits - Carter 3, Lowrie 15

I could keep cherry-picking stats that make Carter look like a wuss, and Lowrie look like a boss, but I'll spare you guys ; )

Carter's a one-dimensional bomber who can be easily replaced... Carlos Gonzalez, he is not... as I said on the main page, I'm neither thrilled, nor pissed... but I think some of you are WAY over-valuing Carter.  Before last year, we would've probably traded him for a ham sandwich... I'm actually more upset about losing Peacock and Stassi than I am Carter... and If Carter hits 40 home runs, as you guaranteed BP, it will be with a low average and 200 K's... that's not a need for us the way it was a few years ago.

I think we got the guy we (Beane) wanted, and I'm mad excited about our team's depth this year... if we keep up the team chemistry we had last year, we could be world-beaters... not too flashy, but consistent.

As for not growing hitters... who cares? That's not something we're good at... what we are good at, is making trades to fill needs, and this was a need... we have no idea how good Nakajima is, and Weeks and Sizemore are also relative questionmarks... this was an important deal, and I'm glad we at least did something to shore up our infield.  I wish we could've done it for cheaper, but I'm sure we tried-

Chris Carter is not an All-Star first baseman, and Brad Peacock is not an All-Star pitcher... and Max Stassi... we have no idea what he is yet, he may be nothing... so let's just relax.

2 top 10 prospects and a player that once was the top rated player in our farm for a career backup coming off of a career year (in which he hit .244) that we only have control of through 2014 and you want us to be happy about it? The type of package Beane gave away was something that you give up for an All-Star. Not Mark DeRosa Jr..

Chris Carter finally "showed up" last year, and had a WAR below 1... that would shoe him in as a AAAA player (Lowrie's was over 2)

WAR is misleading in this scenario. Obviously Lowrie had a higher WAR because it places 2/3 of that stat are based on UZR and baserunning. Not to mention, that stat makes an arbitrary positional adjustment for defense hurting first baseman and promoting shortstops because it argues that defensive shortstops are inherently more valuable than defensive first baseman. So even if both had the exact same numbers and the same UZR, the first baseman would be unfairly rated lower.

Meanwhile, WAR also relies on wOBA which DOES NOT factor in ballpark and Lowrie has played his entire career in two of the friendliest offensive confines. Even still, the numbers are mediocre.

Last but not least, Lowrie has been in the league for 5 years. The chance of him becoming better than he already is is pretty slim. Carter is 3 years younger and has a much higher ceiling.

Chris Carter K's about 1/3 PA's... Lowrie, 1/6

You aren't comparing Apples to Apples. Start naming solid shortstops that strike out a lot. Now, do the same thing with first baseman. A lot of good power hitters strike out a lot, ESPECIALLY first baseman.

Carter's a one-dimensional bomber who can be easily replaced...

Really? Find me another player under control through at least 2016 that can easily slug .500 in a pitchers park? Carter is a better hitter now than both of our two DH options (Smith and Young). Players with Carters power do not come along often. 

I think we got the guy we (Beane) wanted, and I'm mad excited about our team's depth this year..

And what happens now if Brandon Moss, who had 15 career homers and a career 80 OPS+ prior to last season, reverts to his old form? Who plays first base? Barton? Peterson? We already had middle infielders. Heck, Lowrie is the 7th player on our 40 man roster that can play middle infield. 

With Peacock gone, what happens if Colon struggles (who knows how much PED's helped him). Pitchers are going to get hurt. It's not a question of if, more than it is when. We only have Straily and Blackley who can jump in and make a start now (Sonny Gray's numbers were not good over a full season last year. 

... Carlos Gonzalez, he is not... 

CarGo had a WAR under 1 in his season in Oakland. He actually had a negative offensive WAR and the only reason the number was as high as it was, was due to the defensive factors. Would you make the same argument then?

Trade him for a chance to win now. I didn't like the CarGo/Holliday trade and I don't like this one. It stinks all over.

As for not growing hitters... who cares?

I do. Find me a World Series champion that didn't have home grown talent. It makes things extremely difficult for us. I don't understand how this isn't a cause for concern, especially considering that we are a small market team with no money.

 we have no idea how good Nakajima is, and Weeks and Sizemore are also relative questionmarks...

and Brandon Moss isn't? I know he's coming off of a good year, but I have literally no expectations for him once again until we see consistency. If he fails, we have no decent first base depth in the organization until you get to A ball. And I don't see a good first baseman on the open market.

At least if Sizemore didn't play well, we could turn to Weeks or call up Grant Green (he's a much better 2B than SS). If Moss doesn't play well over the course of a full season (remember, Moss only got 265 at bats last year), we are pretty much hosed at that position (which should be where a lot of your offense comes from).

promoting shortstops because it argues that defensive shortstops are inherently more valuable than defensive first baseman.

I'm pretty sure they are... SS's with power are also inherently more valuable than 1B with power.

Find me another player under control through at least 2016 that can easily slug .500 in a pitchers park?

gladly... in his first year in Oakland, Jack Cust was under team control and slugged .500... with an OBP 50 pts higher than Carter's... how'd that work out?

And what happens now if Brandon Moss, who had 15 career homers and a career 80 OPS+ prior to last season, reverts to his old form?

Early on we can swing a deal if we're relevant... later on, we'd be in the same situation as when Carter's going through another serious slump and Moss reverts back to form at the same time... we'd be screwed... it happens.  Hypotheticals can go any way you want them to.

and you want us to be happy about it?

Don't flip this on me... I'm not telling you how to feel about it... I'm not happy about it, but I'm going to let it all unfold before saying we got fleeced... if it's a flop, it's a flop... but I don't think it's a franchise killer either way,  Carter wasn't going to get regular at-bats here anyway... So if he is a 40 HR guy, he probably wouldn't have been for us.

Beane's the same guy that brought in Moss, Cespedes, Reddick, and everyone else that took us to the division title last year and won Exec of the year... If it is a HUGE MISTAKE, it'll be one of very few... and I'm just saying: relax

2 top 10 prospects

Umm you mean 1 right. your favorite prospect site BA has stassi ranked 14th.

WAR is misleading in this scenario. Obviously Lowrie had a higher WAR because it places 2/3 of that stat are based on UZR and baserunning. Not to mention, that stat makes an arbitrary positional adjustment for defense hurting first baseman and promoting shortstops because it argues that defensive shortstops are inherently more valuable than defensive first baseman. So even if both had the exact same numbers and the same UZR, the first baseman would be unfairly rated lower.

Actually its not unfairly as due to the fact that an average replacement 1B will hit better then an average replacement SS. There is a reason SS have more value that DH types.

I'm pretty sure they are...

Whatever....Brendan Ryan had a WAR over 3 last year being a defensive guru, but I want nothing to do with him. I think way too many people place emphasis on defense and overvalue it. From 2007 to 2011, the A's had one of the best defenses in the league, combined with a solid pitching staff, but didn't amount to much.

Last season the A's finally went away from that line of thinking and I believe it helped carry us. The majority of the time, the teams that are constantly making the postseason are the ones that have the better offenses. When we were dominant in the early 2000's, we relied on the long ball. We relied on the long ball last year as well. The A's had 16 straight games in 2012 in which they hit a home run.
 

SS's with power are also inherently more valuable than 1B with power.

Who said anything about a SS with power? Unless you are insinuating Lowrie is one? In that case I will just laugh.

gladly... in his first year in Oakland, Jack Cust was under team control and slugged .500... with an OBP 50 pts higher than Carter's... how'd that work out? 

You obviously misunderstood the question. Go out and find me a player right now that can easily slug .500 in a pitchers park. You can't. They are few and far between. Even if you found one, teams aren't willing to deal them away.

 Hypotheticals can go any way you want them to.

You were talking about depth, which refers to being prepared for a situation that we don't know will happen yet. My point was, we ALREADY had more talent behind our middle infielders than we did behind our first baseman. Now, if a bad season, injury, etc. happens to Moss, we have Daric effing Barton stepping in to play first base.

Beane's the same guy that brought in Moss,

Farhan Zaidi is who guy who brought in Brandon Moss.

and I'm just saying: relax

I am relaxed. A lot more than the day it happened at least. Just pissed still as I don't see this helping our team.

Umm you mean 1 right. your favorite prospect site BA has stassi ranked 14th.

someone is hypocritical here. Spend all your time posting scout.com and you don't even believe in it. #10 on Scout.com.

Whatever, so he was 13 on Baseball America (Cole traded). The point still stands. The type of deal we gave up for Lowrie is the type of deal you'd expect to acquire an all-star with.

Maybe this is just ownership being cheap by funneling out the money that no one pays attention to in the minors and sending off anyone with a somewhat large contract. The A's went well over slot to sign Stassi and prevent him from going to UCLA and they also went over slot to sign Yordy Cabrera. Both are now gone.

someone is hypocritical here

You can say that again lol. You do nothing but talk crap anytime i use scout.com rankings but your gonna through em out when it suits ya arnt ya.