USC loses another....

Tell me again about his failure.    



Everyone has an opinion.  But there's a reason this guy is 37-34 as a head coach and generally viewed as a sleazy goofball.  

     

Everyone has an opinion.  But there's a reason this guy is 37-34 as a head coach and generally viewed as a sleazy goofball.

Let's be a little more fair to the situation.

His college record is 32-19 (25-13 at USC). Not awesome, but considering he took over a declining Tennessee program (and incidentally had the same record in his one season there as Saban did in his 1st season at 'Bama) and that he moved from there to a USC program that was just beginning the harshest sanctions handed out since SMU (at that time), I'd say he's done just fine.

He is considered a sleazy goofball because he ran his fool mouth at Tennessee and then when he left after one season (for the exact job that he told Tennessee before they hired him that he would leave for), Tennessee fans decided to burn some couches and the rest of the SEC all joined in. It's why every time his name comes up it's mostly SEC fans that jump in and start piling on. 

His first 2 seasons at USC were quiet and uneventful. He went 18-7 and everyone was happy. Last season, the team started out 6-1 and then the season came off the tracks and no one handled it well. As I have said, he will have next season to show that this past season was an anomaly. If he doesn't, USC will have a new coach.

TF12,

Cant believe you can still defend Kiffin

is it official?  i know the rumors are he will go FSU, but I didnt know that he had signed his LOI.

TF12,

Cant believe you can still defend Kiffin

This should be Kiffin's last shot but I think USC will give him 2 years to develop Browne as long as he maintains a .500 record. But after that....Vaya con Dios. 

TF12,

Cant believe you can still defend Kiffin

Can't believe that you can't come up with a better reason than one bad season to fire him.

This should be Kiffin's last shot but I think USC will give him 2 years to develop Browne as long as he maintains a .500 record. But after that....Vaya con Dios.

Considering that USC has a very manageable schedule next season, if he goes .500, he'll be gone. I think he needs a minimum of 9 wins. He could possibly keep his job with 8 wins, but not if we get swept by Stanford, ND and UCLA again. 

trojanfan...is hard for some of us to believe that he recruits as well as he does because, fair or not, he comes across as a buffoon. Even though I dont particularly like the guy he does get credit for reeling in studs to play football. It is a handicap when your scholarships are limited but it is also true that southern california with the weather, women and the tradition of USC is not that hard of a sell. Having said that I would think Pat Hayden has given him some kind of an ultimatum about next season. I also think LK has done nothing to ingratiate himself with fans with his silly antics. He may be in his 30s but some of those stunts were middle school mentality. Cant stand your Trojans(ND fan) but it is a school with a proud tradition that deserves a better coach. We all know that a coach's job is not just on the field; its off the field as well. You have to embrace the alums, students and fans whether you like it or not. Those are the people who are big time contributors to the school. I always had the impression that LK was dismissive, insulting and indifferent to anyone who challenge or questioned him. There are HCs who arent much older than he is but dont act like a moron. Time for him to grow up. As for the recruit ND snagged 1 from the Trojans which almost never happens.

trojanfan...is hard for some of us to believe that he recruits as well as he does because, fair or not, he comes across as a buffoon.

As I said, last season, the whole thing fell apart on everyone and no one handled it well. Ultimately, that falls on the coach. However, even when you look at the "missteps" from last year. How big of a deal were they really? UCLA's coach on 2 seperate occasions said or did something worse than Kiffin did (bullied a PR person and made the comment about people getting murdered near campus) and each was about a day and a half on news. Kiffin bans a reporter for violating a policy that the reporter knew about (one example) and suddenly he's the anti-christ.

Kiffin did himself no favors last year, there is no question about that. However, he performed well in his first 2 seasons, won more games than were expected, has had no NCAA issues (even last year) and has the team performing better academically than Pete Carroll did. I'd say he's earned one more season to show that last year was an anomaly.

Even though I dont particularly like the guy he does get credit for reeling in studs to play football. It is a handicap when your scholarships are limited but it is also true that southern california with the weather, women and the tradition of USC is not that hard of a sell.

True. USC, even under schollie reductions, always has talent. What he has exceeded at is the level of talent that he is able to get (which, by the way, everyone said he couldn't get with the sanctions). USC has an average star rating of 4.4 per recruit and had four 5 star and three 4 star early enrollees. Most schools don't even have that many considering their program, much less already in class.

Having said that I would think Pat Hayden has given him some kind of an ultimatum about next season.

This is largely why I am able to still defend him. I have faith in Pat Haden. If Haden feels like Kiffin deserves another season, I'm not going to question him on it. At least not yet. Haden has said that he expects all of USC's programs to win and to win the right way. In his Kiffin's first 2 seasons, that is exactly what he did. Last year, he didn't in the sense that he didn't win enough and had the stupid missteps. Still no NCAA violations, however.

I also think LK has done nothing to ingratiate himself with fans with his silly antics. He may be in his 30s but some of those stunts were middle school mentality.

His job is not to ingratiate himself with fans and alumni, it is to win football games. If he wins, the fans and alumni will support him regardless. If he doesn't, it won't matter because he'll be gone.

Time for him to grow up.

I agree 100%. Ironically, so does he!!

[http://espn.go.com/college-football
/story/_/id/8893172/lane-kiffin-tak
es-blame-usc-trojans-2012-season-co
llege-football]

USC is also losing Jason Hatcher (4* DE) to UK... let that sink in for a minute folks. USC lost a football recruit to UK.

That alone should be enough to fire Kiffin. LOL!

Kiffen has only managed to beat one ranked team in his entire college carreer and basically that Oregon win in Autzen two years ago has been his only saving grace.  

In 2011 the competition was much worse as USC only faced two ranked teams.  

When the Pac / ND improved last year you saw what happened.  

If I were a USC fan I would want Kiffen gone.  You had plenty of talent last year and he completely and utterly Failed.   Not one USC fan talked about a weak d line or O line going into the season.  In fact you all had shirts made that said Our 75 are better than your 85,  but once the season went into the toilet the excuses about personeel came out of the woodwork. 

You guys can feel free to defend Kiffen and wish him to stay. I am sure your competition won't mind at all if he does.

Let's be a little more fair to the situation.

His college record is 32-19 (25-13 at USC). Not awesome, but considering he took over a declining Tennessee program (and incidentally had the same record in his one season there as Saban did in his 1st season at 'Bama) and that he moved from there to a USC program that was just beginning the harshest sanctions handed out since SMU (at that time), I'd say he's done just fine.


A fair approach would be to hold off on the Saban comparisons.

Look, I don't think this guy has been handed an ideal situation, but at the same neither has anyone not named Les Miles.  The fact remains he was fired from the Raiders after a litt over one season, and has had a pedestrian HC career otherwise.  Since we are carving out records, take away the one good season Kiffin was able to put together and his overall record is 27-32 with his college record at 22-17.

Besides, it's not like this guy is mucking it out at Middle Tennessee State or Northern Iowa.  Getting to coach the Raiders, Volunteers, and Trojans right out of the box is an opportunity 99% of coaches would die for, so let's hold off on the "woe is Kiffin" ballad.

At some point, it stops being everyone else.         



He is considered a sleazy goofball because he ran his fool mouth at Tennessee and then when he left after one season (for the exact job that he told Tennessee before they hired him that he would leave for), Tennessee fans decided to burn some couches and the rest of the SEC all joined in. It's why every time his name comes up it's mostly SEC fans that jump in and start piling on. 

     
Really?  That's your idea of being "fair"?  Lane Kiffin is considered a sleazy goofball only because of Tennessee and SEC fans?    

Impossible to even take seriously.



  

Trojan - did not say he has to answer to fans and alums because of course he does not; its Pat Hayden's job to keep the optimism level up for the alums esp the ones who donate big bucks to the University. His job is to get the Ws and the rest will follow; my point was if you are not living up to the hype/expectations is it really the smartest thing to be the biggest moron you can be on top of the Ls? You can be cocky if you are Nick Saban not Lane Kiffin. I also agree with you about Pat Hayden. He is a classy no nonsense kind of guy. He didnt hire LK and I know he said all the right things to protect the recruits. I am sure too that there are USC fans who want to kick Lane to the curb. Next season will be very telling. As an Irish fan I have to say one of your Ws better not be in South Bend.

A fair approach would be to hold off on the Saban comparisons.

The Saban comparison was for the 1st season only. Believe me, if Kiffin becomes half the coach Saban is, USC will be more than fine.

Look, I don't think this guy has been handed an ideal situation, but at the same neither has anyone not named Les Miles.  The fact remains he was fired from the Raiders after a litt over one season, and has had a pedestrian HC career otherwise.  Since we are carving out records, take away the one good season Kiffin was able to put together and his overall record is 27-32 with his college record at 22-17.

And what would be the point of taking out the 10-2 season? First you want to include his NFL seasons to make things look worse, now you want to remove his 10-2 season.

Besides, it's not like this guy is mucking it out at Middle Tennessee State or Northern Iowa.  Getting to coach the Raiders, Volunteers, and Trojans right out of the box is an opportunity 99% of coaches would die for, so let's hold off on the "woe is Kiffin" ballad.

What woe is Kiffin ballad? I pointed out that the guy has had one bad season and doesn't deserve to be fired for it and why. Outside of one bad season, no one has been able to provide a single reason as to why he should be fired other than, they just don't like him.

And complaining about the jobs he has had comes off more as jealousy than anything else.

At some point, it stops being everyone else.

Never said it was anyone else. I said he doesn't deserve to be fired for onbe bad season and have pointed out things that he has done well.

Really?  That's your idea of being "fair"?  Lane Kiffin is considered a sleazy goofball only because of Tennessee and SEC fans?    

Impossible to even take seriously.

Yes, Really!! This thread was started by an SEC fan and most of the posts have been SEC fans and me. If you go back and look, you'll find that most of the anti-Kiffin threads are started and/or posted on by mainly SEC fans. So yes, it's fair.

His job is to get the Ws and the rest will follow; my point was if you are not living up to the hype/expectations is it really the smartest thing to be the biggest moron you can be on top of the Ls? You can be cocky if you are Nick Saban not Lane Kiffin.

In all of my defense of Kiffin, I have never said that he was anything less than a moron in the way he handled last season. All that I have said is that he doesn't deserve to be fired for that one season. Now, if there is repeat (or even close) for this coming season, I can guarantee you that I will be singing a completely different tune than I am now.

You can be cocky if you are Nick Saban not Lane Kiffin.

Agree 100%!! As I have said, if Kiffin becomes half the coach that Saban is, I will be very happy!!

I also agree with you about Pat Hayden. He is a classy no nonsense kind of guy. He didnt hire LK and I know he said all the right things to protect the recruits.

According to Haden, Kiffin has the ability to be a great coach. As of now, I'm going to buy what Haden's selling and to be clear, my faith is in Haden and his ability to judge Kiffin and not in Kiffin. As Kiffin said in the article I linked, it's up to him to earn back the trust and respect of fans.

I am sure too that there are USC fans who want to kick Lane to the curb.

You have nooooo idea. LOL!! I have had my sanity and/or intelligence questioned by fellow Trojans both on these boards and in real life. Fortunately, I used to work as a chef, so if I end up eating crow........at least I can make it taste good!!

Next season will be very telling.

I think next season will make or break his coaching career. If he learns from his mistakes and the team performs well and continues to do so, he will have a very long and successful career. If he has anything close to a repeat of this year, he'll be lucky to get a video coordinator job at a high school.

And what would be the point of taking out the 10-2 season? First you want to include his NFL seasons to make things look worse, now you want to remove his 10-2 season. 


It's just not that difficult.  Overall, Kiffin is barely over a .500 as a HC.  You wanted to carve out his college career trying to put a shine on your argument.  However, closer examination of even his college career shows that he has had one season of 10 wins and the remainder as slightly above .500.  Just as his overall record shows.



What woe is Kiffin ballad? I pointed out that the guy has had one bad season and doesn't deserve to be fired for it and why. Outside of one bad season, no one has been able to provide a single reason as to why he should be fired other than, they just don't like him.

And complaining about the jobs he has had comes off more as jealousy than anything else.


You are quickly becoming king of the strawman argument.  There's no complaining about the jobs that he has had.  The point is that you are full of excuses on why Kiffin has failed to be anything more than a .500 HC.  He has held some of the best jobs in the sport and still cannot manage to be more than pedestrian.


Miraculously, we have over 5 seasons of track record at top-notch gigs and you argue that he hasn't been given the situation he needs to succeed.  Yeah, that happens in life.  If only he could get a job where he had the best talent and the best assistant coaches, and didn't have to play good competition, then we could really see what this guy could do.



Yes, Really!! This thread was started by an SEC fan and most of the posts have been SEC fans and me. If you go back and look, you'll find that most of the anti-Kiffin threads are started and/or posted on by mainly SEC fans. So yes, it's fair.


OMG, you mean that even if you are right that some people just don't like him because they are fans of SEC teams, that all fans of SEC teams don't like him for the same reason?  Gosh, why didn't you just say so.

You are the picture perfect Kiffin apologist.  Never been given a fair shake, and people unfairly dislike him.  Hilarious.    

You are the picture perfect Kiffin apologist. 

That's all that guy does here.  For anyone that is viewed as less than savory....here he comes to defend them.  Its what he does.  

I would hardly call taking a Tennessee team that had been in decline for nearly a decade and had a losing season the previous year to a 7-6 record and bowl game...flopping.

TF12, is that REALLY a big accomplishment?

We could probably find dozens of examples of other coaches taking over a team that had multiple losing seasons, and got them to 7-6 or better in their first year.

It may not be "flopping" but it isn't anything to brag about, either. 

It's just not that difficult.  Overall, Kiffin is barely over a .500 as a HC.  You wanted to carve out his college career trying to put a shine on your argument.  However, closer examination of even his college career shows that he has had one season of 10 wins and the remainder as slightly above .500.  Just as his overall record shows.

College coaching and NFL coaching are 2 completely different animals. Just ask Nick Saban and Steve Spurrier. That is why I don't include his NFL experience with his college experience. They are completely different.

And a closer examination of his college career also shows that he took over a UT program in decline and a USC program just starting sanctions. An overall record of 32-19 under those conditions seems reasonable. If UT had not been in decline or if USC wasn't under sanctions, I would have a different opinion. However, considering what everyone said the sanctions were supposed to do to the program, overall he has performed better than expected. As long as he learns to keep his damn mouth shut and just coaches the team, he should be fine. If not, he'll be gone.

You are quickly becoming king of the strawman argument.

Why? Because I disagree with you?

There's no complaining about the jobs that he has had.

To name just 2 complaints:

It has been said on other threads that he "was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple". It has been said that the only reason that he has gotten any job is because of his Dad. All you need to do is read virtually any anti-Kiffin thread.

The point is that you are full of excuses on why Kiffin has failed to be anything more than a .500 HC.  He has held some of the best jobs in the sport and still cannot manage to be more than pedestrian.

Please post 1 excuse that I have made re: Kiffin's performance. I have said that he has had one bad season and does not deserve to be fired for it. I have said that he ran his fool mouth last year and that the season got away from him. I have also said that he will likely need no fewer than 9 wins next season to keep his job. At no point have I made any excuses for him. I have been very critical of his performance last season and have been critical of how he conducted himself at UT. What I have not done, is agree that he should be fired for 1 bad season.

Miraculously, we have over 5 seasons of track record at top-notch gigs and you argue that he hasn't been given the situation he needs to succeed.  Yeah, that happens in life.  If only he could get a job where he had the best talent and the best assistant coaches, and didn't have to play good competition, then we could really see what this guy could do.

Talk about a strawman argument. The reality is that he took over a program that was under sanctions that were supposed to be crippling and has performed better than expected in the first 2 seasons. His 4 seasons as a college head coach with 3 under sanctions and 1 taking over a program in decline are not much of a sample size. If he walked into a santion free USC and had the record that he has now, he'd be gone.

As for best talent and assistant coaches, etc. How about just a season where he isn't dealing with no postseason opportunity or scholarship reductions?

OMG, you mean that even if you are right that some people just don't like him because they are fans of SEC teams, that all fans of SEC teams don't like him for the same reason?  Gosh, why didn't you just say so.

Yeah, that's what I said (walks away rolling eyes and shaking head)!!

You are the picture perfect Kiffin apologist.

And you are picture perfect of deflection and avoidance. I guess if saying that he doesn't deserve to be fired after one bad season while being very critical of his performance makes me an apologist, then I'm an apologist.

TF12, is that REALLY a big accomplishment?

No and I never said it was. I simply pointed out that he improved the team.

We could probably find dozens of examples of other coaches taking over a team that had multiple losing seasons, and got them to 7-6 or better in their first year.

It may not be "flopping" but it isn't anything to brag about, either.

 I agree, definitely nothing to brag about. Additionally, I'd add that the 7-6 record at Tennessee and last seasons 7-6 record at USC are very different as well. The 7-6 record at Tennessee was an improvement while the 7-6 record at USC was an epic fail.

People seem to think that I'm some huge Lane Kiffin fan. I'm not. I simply don't see why he should be fired for one bad season and I have yet to see one person post a reason why that one season is enough to fire him. His first 2 seasons at USC, he kept his mouth shut, concentrated on coaching the team and had good to very good results.

Last season, he ran his stupid mouth, allowed himself to get caught up in stupid crap and the result was a failure of a season. Hopefully, he has put 2 and 2 together and realizes that when he keeps his mouth shut and just worries about coaching football, he's a pretty good coach. When he runs his mouth and acts the fool......not so much.

I don't think that giving him one more season to show whether or not he has learned his lesson should be any kind of an issue. Seems fair to me.