I don't think the Rams should give up two first round picks for Joeckel, either. The Rams have a chance to fill some holes in the upcoming Draft and they need all the picks they can get.
If I were the GM and Luke Joeckel fell past the top four (which I think is highly unlikely), I would jump at the chance to trade picks #16 and #22 for the right to take the guy that arguably is the top talent in the entire draft. Assuming the teams followed the old Draft Value Chart, the Rams would probably get a fourth or fifth rounder back, as well. That would be a no brainer, in my opinion. I understand the thought that the team needs multiple first rounders to fill multiple needs, but when you've got a chance to move up to take a guy that is going to make the offensive line much, much stronger for many years to come, and you've got Sam Bradford at QB, you've got to jump at the chance to build a line that will let your franchise QB remain upright.
I agree MARS that Joeckel is a great talent but the Rams need 1st round talent in quite a few positions, OT, SS, FS, OLB. We can't get them all but we need two of them filled, not just one, there is talent in later rounds for OT let alone if Fisher from Central Michigan falls to #16, not like Joeckel I agree but guys to work with. I addressed this in the off season thread.
I recognize that I'm in the minority here, but I think the Rams are very close to being right up there on the same level as the 49ers and Seahawks. And if they're on the same level as the 49ers and Seahawks, then they're legtimate Super Bowl contenders. (There. I said it.)
If "legitimate Super Bowl contenders" who have a dire need at OT are presented with an opportunity to trade up to get the best OT in the draft (if not the best player in the draft), then I think they should do it. They'll be able to fill those other slots (SS, FS and OLB) in later rounds or free agency. Specifically, I think they could land Rutgers OLB Khaseem Greene in the 2nd and either Georgia safety Bacarri Rambo or USC safety T.J. McDonald in the third. Adding three starters (especially if one of those staters is Luke Joeckel) would be a nice complement to an already young and talented roster.
And one more thing... My opinion is based on the fact that I believe there's very little chance Eric Fisher falls out of the Top Ten. If the Rams front office got some good intel that Fisher was going to fall to #16, then I'd definitely prefer to take him at #16 so they could take another stud at #22.
The teams that are SuperBowl Contenders are rarely seen trading up. I can't remember any instances of the Pats trading up, but its common to see them trade down. The Steelers haven't traded up in the 1st round since 2003.
Being flexible (willing to trade up or down if the right possibility presents itself) is one of the many things that set the good GMs above the average GMs.
With 8-9 projected OTs to go in the first 2 rounds, you want to give KC the farm for the #1 pick?
I prefer quality to quantity. Eight or nine OTs are projected to go in the first two rounds because a whole bunch of teams have needs at that position. That doesn't mean that there are eight or nine excellent OT prospects that could step in and start from Day One.
And the premise of the thread is trading up to #5 if Luke Joeckel fell past the top four. Trading the #16 and #22 to get up to #5 would yield a mid-round pick back in return, so I wouldn't classify that as giving away the farm considering it would leave the Rams picking at #5, with one pick in the 2nd and 3rd round, and probably two in the 4th.
SOOOO the premise here is stupid. Joeckel's not going to go below #5. If KC doesn't take him, the Eagles will. And the reason LT/RT is a huge need is because the pass rush in the NFL on the outside has become beastlike, especially with more 3-4 defenses out there. IN a pass happy league, the most important player next to the QB is the LT. So there you go.
But when you have 8-9 OT's projected in the 1st two rounds, it's retarded to give the farm for the #1 overall pick. You really think Joeckel is that much better than Kyle Long? OR the kid that got hurt at LSU - Faulk? He may be better, but not ALOT better. And that's right now. Alot can change over the next 5 years. And tell me the last draft that had more than 6 OT's drafted in the 1st two rounds??
I agree Junkie, not to bring Joeckel back to the rest of the OTs but does anyone really know if a guy is going All Pro for 15 years or not? I thought Jason Smith was going to be a good LT and he was a bust. I just think taking the best OT when we can or OG in the Warmack or Cooper and then OT is the smart way to go. Sam Bradford will not if ever be a better QB unless he can stand upright within the pocket and hit a receiver. With the line the Rams have now it is count to 3 and duck.
I didn't create the "stupid premise". I just answered the original poster's question.
And yes, I think Joeckel is much, much better than Long (who has very little experience at the position) and much, much, much better than Faulk (who may still be on the board when the Rams pick in the fourth round).
MARS, if Fisher thinks that Joeckel is that much better, he will do what is best for the Rams. He knows how valuable a LT is for the Rams success. I trust his judgement.
Michael Oher was a good pick in the 2nd MArs. No idea about some of the other lower picks.
Point is I don't think we need to reach - that's what the old regime did and look what happened. And I don't think Faulk and Long are that much behind Joeckel. Long is an athletic freak that has played a few positions and Faulk is bigger than Joeckel - just coming off an injury. Coaches and teammates can help develop players with that high motor and skills. This team would be stupid to trade away picks. We need to trade down and get more, not trade up.
And do you know how many teams will be trying to trade up for Joeckel IF KC doesn't pick him? Alot. And right before the Eagles pick.
Still alot of time between now and the combine. I think there is a deep class at OT this year and we will come out of this draft with 3 good players with our 1st three picks.
I think we agree on more than it appears, S.J. I totally agree about Michael Oher being a very good late first rounder back in '09. He slid quite a bit on Draft Day. Most prognosticators thought he'd go in the Top 10 to 12 (if memory serves me right)... And you'll note in this thread I said that I'd stand pat if I thought the Rams could get Eric Fisher at #16. You can add Chance Warmack to that list, and I'd probably stand pat if it looked like the Rams could grab OT Lane Johnson (Oklahoma) at #22.
This is a draft year that has depth at several positions that coincide with the Rams' needs: OT, OG, WR, and especially safety. So I obviously also agree that the Rams will come out of the draft with (at least) three good players in the first three rounds.
We all are right, no one is wrong here. If Joeckel is a pro bowler for the next 10 years a lot of teams will have wished they had paid the price. Just look at the RGIII deal with the Redskins. There is not a day go by that I am not on the Browns page and someone says the Browns should have paid the price. Every once in a while a special player comes around. I just want Fisher and Snead to get the Rams 3 starters for 2013 and depth. OG, OT and SS would be nice. Warmack, Cooper, Fisher, Johnson, Elam, Reid, Long, just find some players to help us get closer to the 49ers and Seahawks in the division. Every 2 to 3 years there is a huge turnover at the top with teams and I hope by 2014 the Rams are the ones on top.
