And of course we should make a run at Ed Reed. He's what we need to defend the likes of White, Jones, and Jackson twice a year. Cause those kids u said we should draft are not guaranteed to be there when we pick. Plus Reed's from N.O.
I'm not sure Vilma is better now than when he 1st started, but he certainly showed his age last year much like Ray Ray aged w/ Baltimore during the last few years & certainly in the Super Bowl. I'm inclined to believe much of his being a non factor was due to injury. However, the bottom line is it's going to get interesting over these next few weeks.
You really think Vilma is a better player now than when he was younger ? No way is he better man, c'mon now do you watch football ? Vilma is pedestrian at this point of his career. Plus he has knee problems. He's definitely smarter, but that's about it.
So what I keep hearing is to cut Smith, Harper, and Vilma for "someone".
Who is "someone"?
Why is it that Cam Jordan is going to be better now since he played 3-4 at Cal, but Vilma is not... even though he played 3-4 in the pro league?
Ed Reed (at 34) is going to be better for 1-2 years than Harper who did pretty well with Sharper in 2009 with a coach who let him play.
I don't want to say this too much, but Reed isn't going to keep up with White and Jackson, and sure as shiznit not Jones. He's on the decline, and will retire with Baltimore, regardless of his love for New Orleans (see Marshall Faulk and Reggie Wayne).
Watch Ed Reed's knee... he tweeked it in the Super Bowl and I'm not sure he'll be 100% from here out.
I totally agree that we need to bring in new talent. I 100% agree, but to cut too soon may be a bit rash. The FA pool is bleak and it looks like teams (with money) are going to try to keep some talent.
We might win Anthony Spencer because Dallas screwed the pooch last year with the salary cap and need to sign Romo... snicker giggle...
Why is that there's such a big deal about Vilma being older, but it's perfectly okay for us to bring in an also older Ed Reed who as of late has had a bit of history with injuries. And what does being from N.O have to do with anything? Nothing is what. So lets get rid of everyone, bring in a bunch of rookies, bring in an aging S who may or may not still have anything in the tank, and go out and win a superbowl? Don't think that is gonna happen, and that's why SP is not going to completely blow up the defense. Smith doesn't need to be the elite pass rusher as a 3-4 DE. He just needs to set to edge. Truth be told, yeah, he lost a step in pass rush, but he still held up in the run defense and that is why he will be asked to do in the 3-4 mostly, which means he's perfectly suited to be a "rotational" guy at that spot. Yes he will most definitely have to redo his deal, but what would be the cheaper option? As for Vilma, he's a much smarter play than he was a few years ago, and Ray Lewis and Darren Sharper( Charles Woodson too) that just because your older, doesn' mean you done. So I get why you push for Reed, but you could make the same argument for Vilma based on that. Reed has had injuries too
Because Vilma is not gonna be good in a 3-4. Ask the Jets. Plus he's smallish for an ILB in that D. Ed Reed knows the 3-4, is what we need most on D and is a ballhawk, something our D lacks big time. Oh yeah and is very, very intelligent also. Will Smith is good against the run but can't get to the QB like he's supposed to and he doesn't even get doubled teamed. He has a one on one mostly every down. C'mon now guys why are we content with these dudes ? I'd actually rather keep Vilma than Smith though.
We dish out big contracts to 3 soon to be 4 guys on offense, Brees, Evans, Colston, and soon Graham. How bout we dish out a few big contracts on D ? It seems we treat our O like Cinderella and our D like a red headed step child.
That's not entirely true, Vilma, Greer, Smith, Harper all got some pretty hefty contracts. Sed Ellis got paid in his rookie contract, but that was before the new cap on rookie contracts, then Bunkley. We have spent money on the D, it just hasn't panned out like we envisioned. I think we need the scouts to really focus and find us some defensive talent. I think they are getting there too. I mean Cam Jordan, and Akiem Hicks are the real deal, but we still have yet to draft that LB or to really draft that CB. I think Pat Rob has the tools, but he needs to work on the mental aspects of the game and I think he's better suited to be a nickel CB. That's just me though
Ya we give big contracts to guys on offense that deserve it cause they are productive. I don't think Harper deserved a big contract. I don't think Greer deserved a big contract. And the only reason Ellis got a big contract is because he was a top 10 pick, other than that he didn't deserve it. Vilma deserved 35 million and Smith deserved whatever he got (can't remember the numbers).
My biggest concern is freeing up cap space. The young guys are cheap. I'd love to keep smith and vilma and even Harper but how do we do all that and reduce the cap by 30 million. We're about 20 over and need some space to sign other guys and rookies. Restructuring alone may free up a lot but not in those numbers, and then there's the added matter of it inflating future caps. Short of cutting some guys and resigning for smallish contracts I'm not sure how we do it. I don't envy loomis and paytons job in that regard.
My take is cut, cut, & cut. Let's face reality. What has this defense done as a unit at is best (2nd in tournovers spearheaded by Sharper as well as 5 defensive TDs in 09)? What has the defense done at its worst (most yards yielded in NFL history along with bottom 3 in points given up in a season in 2012)? Now scheme & execution does play a role along with having the proper personnel to fit the scheme & execute it to the fullest. I believe we have some decent players (albeit very few) who we should keep, but as a whole it's time to change alltogether. Our defense under Payton's regime has been largely & overly inconsistent & all too often has relied our offense to win games. We need a complimentary defense that can overpower opponents when we get ahead of them. I remember how the defense was back in 06 when they actually would bend but not break with very average players in all aspects of the defense, & we were still 11th in total yards with a bunch of backup caliber players! Then in 2010 I believe we finished 10th in yards given up even though we didn't have nearly the turnovers as in 09. I'll take finishing 10-15 any year with our offense! So, it's time to move on from many of these guys & press forward. Let's get younger & less expensive even to build a defense that compliments our offense. Who Dat!
AMEN, Luv 4 Ever. We've been going through this crap for too long now. I think some of us wanna keep these guys around cause their our players and we have love for them because they have given blood, sweat, and tears for the Saints. But we all have to understand that this is a business, and if your not productive, you gotta go, especially when your not earning the paycheck. I don't care if its Gregg Williams, Steve Spagnuolo, Rob Ryan, or Gary "Freakin" Gibbs, If we bring these players back it'll be the same old song and dance and we'll miss the playoffs again.
Drew Bree's did a solid for future players and Qbs in particular when negotiating for more money and I get that totally. Mission accomplshed. Now he could do us and the team a favor by giving up a small amount of that to make the team more competitive. Yeah I know it's a pipe dream but were over the cap by ton load and need payers although I don't think we need that many new guys. Players are going to have to budge no doubt and I think Bree's will in some fashion especially after what happened on defense last season.
Nola.com reports Curtis Lofton has lowered his cap number by 4m by converting a 5m roster bonus to signing bonus. Not a lot of risk there and that's the sort of thing we need but it does push 4m to future caps. I have to believe that several players are going to have contracts voided and resign altogether to help not only this years cap but future years as well.
Ya Brees should restructure. Too many of these hot shot QB's have big freakin' ego's. They want to be the highest paid QB's. Kudos to Lofton restructuring also cause he didn't have to do that. Jahri Evans should resructure, as should Marques Colston.
So which is it? Offense or Defense? It's pretty hard to have both and most of the teams that do are going to be running into issues with the cap.
I don't think I've heard anyone say "we can go all the way with the defense we currently have" but more like; don't cut them until there's a replacement on hand.
Talent scale from 1-10 Vilma 6 and dropping - if you cut him, you have 0. If you sign a 5, you've gone backwards. Smith (same, same, same)
Go find the up & coming equal, sign them, then sign the dead/dieing weight.
If you want to go Offensive performance, cut Marques Colston. Sure, he's a nice guy, but drops more sure passes & fumbles more than anyone else, especially at key moments. Dump Chris Ivory. That kid is Super Man with the best Kryptonite necklace money can buy. I'll say again, he's great... for half the season, generally the first half, when it doesn't count (as much). Trade Jimmy Graham while he's worth something because he's going to require a TON of money (that we don't have) to keep. New tight end talent is becoming easier to find, ask New England.
Now there's room for some defense, and we all know that while we have Drew Brees, any tight end/receiver can succeed.
You actually bring up an interesting point Iowa. I wonder what kind of draft pick we could get for Graham ? I'm thinking maybe a 3rd rounder, but a 2nd shouldn't be hard to aquire for that talent. We should be trying to trade Chris Ivory right now too cause we have way too many mouths to feed in that backfield including Cadet and most coaches absolutely love a RB with that kind of running style. Even though they don't last too long (see Marion Barber). I'm actually curious to know if we're confident enough in Joe Morgan to take over Devery's role or if we're gonna try and wait on Nick Toon or get someone else. Make no mistake about it, I want to keep Vilma at the right price cause he brings intelligence to the field that's 2nd to none. But if we have someone else cheaper, younger, and just as talented in mind, we have to say bye, bye to JV regardless of the circumstances of age, price, and/or production.