Team finances

I'm kind of surprised this isn't on CBS yet, but I'm also sure some of you have seen this already:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/sto
ry/_/id/8943949/2013-spring-trainin
g-fred-wilpon-says-new-york-mets-fi
nancial-woes-past



 

Get a full list of available free agents next offseason and we'll talk.

Well yeah, now that they're out there and saying this you'd think they'd be backing it with some actual spending.  Otherwise why make this statement?

Here's the list:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/
02/2014-mlb-free-agents.html

The only hitter names that really stand out are Ellsbury and Choo who we've all discussed a little before.

Pitching-wise, I suppose Shields could be available although KC will probably deal him first, and if Hanrahan is still effective as a closer there's a chance he'll be there also.

Of course though this announcement would come in a terrible free agent year (not that this year was great by any stretch).
 

What about Pence/Hart/Granderson/Crisp

Those are all star level players. Dont know how many of them will be available.

And there are other upgrades over what we have.

But we still need to see what we have now. 

Ok let's post it here...

Catchers

Rod Barajas (38)
Henry Blanco (42)
John Buck (33)
Jesus Flores (29)
Ramon Hernandez (38)
Gerald Laird (34)
Brian McCann (30)
Jose Molina (38)
Dioner Navarro (30)
Wil Nieves (36)
Miguel Olivo (35)
Ronny Paulino (33)
Brayan Pena (32)
A.J. Pierzynski (37)
Humberto Quintero (34)
Carlos Ruiz (35)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (29)
Kelly Shoppach (34)
Chris Snyder (33)
Geovany Soto (31)
Kurt Suzuki (30) - $8.5MM club option with a $650K buyout
Yorvit Torrealba (35)

First basemen

Corey Hart (32)
Todd Helton (40)
Eric Hinske (36)
Mike Napoli (32)
Paul Konerko (38)
Adam Lind (30) - $7MM club option with a $2MM buyout
James Loney (30)
Kendrys Morales (30)
Justin Morneau (33)
Mike Morse (32)
Lyle Overbay (37)
Carlos Pena (36)
Mark Reynolds (30)
Juan Rivera (35)
Kevin Youkilis (35)

Second basemen

Yuniesky Betancourt (32)
Robinson Cano (31)
Alexi Casilla (29)
Ronny Cedeno (31)
Mark Ellis (37) - $5.75MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Mike Fontenot (34)
Omar Infante (32)
Kelly Johnson (32)
Nick Punto (36)
Ryan Raburn (33)
Brian Roberts (36)
Ramon Santiago (34)
Skip Schumaker (34)
Chase Utley (35)
Ben Zobrist (33) - $7MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout

 

Shortstops

Alfredo Amezaga (36)
Clint Barmes (35)
Willie Bloomquist (36)
Jamey Carroll (40) - $2MM vesting option with a $250K buyout
Alexi Casilla (29) -$3MM club option with $200K buyout
Ronny Cedeno (31)
Stephen Drew (31)
Yunel Escobar (31) - $5MM club option
Rafael Furcal (36)
Alex Gonzalez (36)
Cesar Izturis (34)
Derek Jeter (40) - $8MM+ player option with a $3MM buyout
John McDonald (39)
Jhonny Peralta (32)
Brendan Ryan (32)

Third basemen

Wilson Betemit (32) - $3.2MM vesting option
Eric Chavez (36)
Mark DeRosa (39)
Chone Figgins (36)
Mike Fontenot (34)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (38)
Brandon Inge (37)
Jose Lopez (30) - Yomiuri Giants have club option
Placido Polanco (38)
Mark Reynolds (30)
Juan Uribe (34)
Kevin Youkilis (35)
Michael Young (37)

Left fielders

Jason Bay (35)
Endy Chavez (36)
Mark DeRosa (39)
Matt Diaz (36)
Chone Figgins (36)
Ben Francisco (32)
Bill Hall (34)
Raul Ibanez (42)
Reed Johnson (37) - $1.6MM club option with a $150K buyout
Austin Kearns (34)
Jason Kubel (32) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Nate McLouth (32)
Mike Morse (32)
David Murphy (32)
Xavier Nady (35)
Laynce Nix (33)
Ryan Raburn (33)
Juan Rivera (35)
Delmon Young (28)

Center fielders

Alfredo Amezaga (36)
Rick Ankiel (34)
Coco Crisp (34) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Rajai Davis (33)
Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
Carlos Gomez (28)
Curtis Granderson (33)
Franklin Gutierrez (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Tony Gwynn Jr. (31)
Nyjer Morgan (33)
Andres Torres (36)
Chris Young (30) - $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Right fielders

Jeff Baker (33)
Carlos Beltran (37)
Endy Chavez (36)
Shin-Soo Choo (31)
Nelson Cruz (33)
David DeJesus (34) - $6.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Mark DeRosa (39)
Matt Diaz (36)
Jeff Francoeur (30)
Corey Hart (32)
Xavier Nady (35)
Nyjer Morgan (33)
Hunter Pence (31)
Juan Rivera (35)
Ryan Sweeney (29)

Designated hitters

Lance Berkman (37) - option vests with 550 plate appearances ($1MM buyout)
Jason Giambi (43)
Travis Hafner (37)
Raul Ibanez (42)
Kendrys Morales (30)
Luke Scott (36)
Delmon Young (28)
Michael Young (37)

Starting pitchers

Bronson Arroyo (37)
Scott Baker (32)
Erik Bedard (35)
Nick Blackburn (32) - $8MM club option
A.J. Burnett (37)
Chris Capuano (35) - $8MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Chris Carpenter (39)
Bruce Chen (37)
Bartolo Colon (41)
Aaron Cook (35)
Jorge De La Rosa (33)
Scott Feldman (30)
Gavin Floyd (31)
Jeff Francis (33)
Armando Galarraga (32)
Freddy Garcia (38)
Matt Garza (30)
Roy Halladay (37) - $20MM vesting option
Jason Hammel (31)
Aaron Harang (36) - $7MM+ mutual option with a $2MM buyout
Rich Harden (32)
Dan Haren (33)
Roberto Hernandez (33)
Tim Hudson (38)
Phil Hughes (28)
Ubaldo Jimenez (30) - may void $8MM option for 2014
Josh Johnson (30)
Jeff Karstens (31)
Hiroki Kuroda (39)
John Lannan (29)
Jon Lester (30) - $13MM club option with a $250K buyout
Colby Lewis (34)
Ted Lilly (38)
Tim Lincecum (30)
Paul Maholm (32)
Shaun Marcum (32)
Jason Marquis (35)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (33)
Brett Myers (33) - club option
Ricky Nolasco (31)
Mike Pelfrey (30)
Andy Pettitte (42)
Wandy Rodriguez (35) - $13MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
Jonathan Sanchez (31)
Ervin Santana (31)
Johan Santana (34) - $25MM club option with a $5.5MM buyout
Joe Saunders (33) - mutual option
James Shields (32) - $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Tim Stauffer (32)
Jason Vargas (31) 
Ryan Vogelsong (36) - $6.5MM club option with a $300K buyout
Edinson Volquez (30)
Tsuyoshi Wada (33) - $5MM club option
Adam Wainwright (32)
Suk-min Yoon (27)
Barry Zito (36) - $18MM vesting option with a $7MM buyout

Closers

Grant Balfour (36)
Rafael Betancourt (39) - $4.25MM mutual option with a $250K buyout
Frank Francisco (34)
Joel Hanrahan (32)
Ryan Madson (33)
Carlos Marmol (31)
Joe Nathan (39) - $9MM club option with a $750K buyout, Nathan may void if he reaches GF targets
Mariano Rivera (44)
Fernando Rodney (37)

Right-handed relievers

David Aardsma (32)
Jeremy Accardo (32)
Manny Acosta (33)
Matt Albers (31)
Scott Atchison (38)
Luis Ayala (36)
Matt Belisle (34) - $4.25MM mutual option with a $250K buyout
Joaquin Benoit (36)
Shawn Camp (38)
Matt Capps (30)
Joba Chamberlain (28)
Manny Corpas (31)
Jesse Crain (32)
Joey Devine (30)
Octavio Dotel (40)
Chad Durbin (36) - club option
Kyle Farnsworth (38)
Jason Frasor (36)
Chad Gaudin (31)
Kevin Gregg (36)
Matt Guerrier (35)
LaTroy Hawkins (39)
Clay Hensley (34)
Casey Janssen (32) - $4MM club option
Jesse Litsch (29)
Matt Lindstrom (34) - $4MM club option
Kameron Loe (32)
Mark Lowe (31)
Brandon Lyon (34)
Nick Masset (32)
Kyle McClellan (30)
Peter Moylan (35)
Edward Mujica (30)
Pat Neshek (33)
Juan Carlos Oviedo (30)
Vicente Padilla (36)
Chad Qualls (35)
Ramon Ramirez (32)
Jon Rauch (35)
Joe Smith (30)
Koji Uehara (39)
Jose Veras (33) - $3.25MM club option with a $150K buyout
Jamey Wright (39)

Left-handed relievers

Bill Bray (31)
Craig Breslow (33)
Tim Byrdak (40)
Scott Downs (38)
Pedro Feliciano (36)
Mike Gonzalez (36)
Rich Hill (34)
J.P. Howell (31)
Boone Logan (29)
Javier Lopez (36)
Eric O'Flaherty (29)
Will Ohman (36)
Hideki Okajima (38)
Darren Oliver (43)
Manny Parra (31)
Oliver Perez (32)
George Sherrill (37)
Matt Thornton (37) - $6MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Ok so we know we don't need a 3rd baseman. We don't need a SS or a starting catcher.  Possibly a backup catcher like Ramon Hernandez, Henry Blanco, Chris Snyder or whoever, as long as they sign for $2 mil or less.  Maybe a couple other minor backup signings for the rest of the infield, but no big money spent there...

Let's just focus on starting pitching and outfielders, and figure the Mets have about $30-35 mil to spend if they want to..

For starters I'm gonna exclude any FAs with a 2014 option for now..

I look at the list of starting pitchers and I see a lot of FAs that I know are gonna stick with their current teams that they've already been with a long time out of loyalty. For example I don't see guys like Gavin Floyd, Tim Hudson, Phil Hughes, Adam Wainright, even Edinson Volquez doing anything but signing back with the current teams they're with now.  I see a lot of pitchers on the list who were decent like Scott Baker, Matt Garza, Jason Hammel, Dan Haren, Rich Harden, Colby Lewis, Jeff Karstens but all are returning from pretty big injuries or surgeries.

I'm just not too impressed with the rest of the starting pitchers on the list. Luckily we are ok in our rotation but it would have been nice to add another decent veteran starter in after Santana's contract is over.

But on to the outfielder list since the absense of proven MLB outfielders on our team is our biggest weakness...

Only real good center fielder I see available is Ellsbury. Other players on that outfield list that stand out are Nelson Cruz, Beltran, Shin Soo Choo, but those guys probably aren't worth spending big bucks on nowadays.

So yeah we can make a few moves in free agency next offseason but I know looking at that entire list and what's available that Alderson is not gonna spend a lot.  If anything, you can expect another trade this July(probably send Santana to a contender short in their rotation, for maybe a half decent outfield young player or prospect in return) and then next offseason the Mets will likely have to make another semi-big trade just to land a legitimate MLB outfielder. 

If we can believe Wilpon, the Mets need to get a head start on that list and find a good piece or two at the break this year....Could be guys from the list that they can extend or it could be guys with a year or two left on their deals...either way...get it done...

Once again, I just can't believe how bad this Mets situation has gotten. I mean the 2013 season hasn't even started and most fans are already looking ahead to next off-season and wondering what moves they will make and it feels like fans have been looking ahead to the next off-season for years now. It is pretty pathetic, especially since the Mets organization giving off the attitude that they do is going to result in a decrease in attendance again and a further decline in revenue, which will basically prevent them from making the moves they need to for next year. Look as I have said since 2011, the Mets will not spend again until at the very least Sandy Alderson is fired. He is not the right GM for this team and organization. I can not stress this enough. Until he is let go, the team is always going to have a lot of holes and weaknesses. He won't overpay for a free agent or for a player in a trade. The only way the Mets are going to get a big time player through free agency or via trade is if they overpay, given their current position. So what good is it if Fred Wilpon's finances are in better shape if they have a GM who is too stubborn in his ways to take advantage of a better financial situation? That's why I'm to the point where I really want the Mets to tank this season. If they lose around 95 games and finish in last place, I can't imagine the Wilpons being able to justify keeping Alderson aboard as the GM for much longer. And as long as the Wilpons are the owners, the only way the team will be able to improve is with a new GM.

Well krufan, you probably won't get an Alderson firing just yet, but I do see your other point. The guy needs to start taking some chances when it comes to making trades. Can't always be so scared of ending up with the short end of the stick. Given that we probably won't be getting a real good outfielder through FA (whether he can spend or not there aren't many available through FA next year let alone one that would prefer to play for the Mets) Alderson is most likely gonna have to accept the fact that he'll have to trade one or 2 of our good prospects for a good outfielder. Or trade one of Tejada, Davis, or Niese to get one. The reality check is gonna come this July when Alderson tries to spit shine Santana and sell him off ala Beltran/Dickey style to get gold back, but its not gonna happen because no team is gonna fall for it. We'll be lucky to get a half decent but serviceable aging player back or maybe a good low level prospect for Santana. We aren't getting another D'arnaud or Wheeler no matter how well Santana pitches these next 4 months, let's put it that way. I'm disappointed in the Mets not making a move for an OFer this year because I know there's gonna be big problems with the OFers we have now. Figure we're already gonna win about 5-10 less games with Dickey gone, even if Wheeler and Marcum do ok. But when I think about the outfield situation I just know its gonna cost at minimum another 5 more losses than last season. Thank god for the Marlins who will lose over 100 games, it may actually make the Mets look good when they lose only 94.

Are we saying that the loss of Bay/Torres/Hairston is worth 5 losses and cant be made up with improvements in the current outfielders?

And how many more wins will the team have with a full year of Harvey and a hopefully healthy Santana?

Not to mention a supposedly better bullpen?

I ebeliev that Marcum will probably get us 10 wins and Harvey could make up the next 10 in improvement.
 

The quality of free agent players in the recent past and what we are seeing looking ahead is indication that the paradigm of the player-team relationship is almost fully changed.   Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally eliminated the "reserve clause" in 1975 which created free agency.  Over time team front offices have gone through a series of approaches to free agency including collusion led by the owner of the Brewers in the late 1980s.  That cost MLB in a lawsuit brought by the MLBPA, but did get the Brewers owner a new job. 

The model today is keep your game changers from being your opponent's game changers by extending them with highly competitive offers that keeps them through their prime years.   The teams that are going to be the perennial contenders are going to be the teams that draft well and make the wise decisions in selecting who to extend and who to trade.  The old Yankees methodology of buying the championships is near obsolete.

It's definitely the new way of doing business, and the small-market teams have finally caught on to the new way of doing things.  There's stilll risk, but the risk has been shifted.  The Twins lost the bet for the most part on Mauer and Morneau for instance.  The Rays went out on a limb with Longoria.  Still though for there to be any shot at a competitive balance, the baseball "new world order" gives the league a decent chance.

The downside in our situation of course is that there isn't the kind of free agent list that was available in the past.   

Of course you still have the Angels/Dodgers/Blue Jays that basically bought teams over the last few years. And you can throw the Red Sox in as well. Good news is that it seems as if there is a different mind set in the Yankees.

Well, I'm not sure you can throw the Blue Jays in there.  This offseason is all trades.  They built a strong farm system and when it was time to make the moves they emptied the minors to get the pieces they needed.  They did take on a lot of payroll, but they made the sacrifice to bring in the names instead of just buying up players and keeping the farm intact.

Really except for Pujols (which is obviously a huge "except") and Wilson, the Angels have essentially done the same thing. 

The Dodgers are a different story, but really they're still the exception.  They did give up a lot in some trades though.  The difference still is that they're going for it all, where ten years ago the big spending teams didn't really make any sacrifices when they signed free agents all over the place. 

While the BlueJays did not go out and raid the free agent farm the extensive amount of trades this past offseason means that the team is made up of players that came from elsewhere.

If you count their position players, DH, 5 expected starters and the closer you get 15 players. Of those only 5 are home grown and that includes the closer and number 5 starter.

I would think that the plan would have the true stars of the team coming from the farm system. Not the fill ins.

I know what you're saying, but when you give up top prospects to bring players in that's different.  Plus unless something really changes in the landscape you'd have to think Toronto's window is somewhat short.

That's a lot different than just going out and signing every top free agent available in the marketplace. 

Would you agree that Anderson is trying to set up this team for a long run of success?

I would agree that he's trying jokati, but one of the problems is there's no guarantee that even half of these prospects will pan out. It feels good to stock up on them I guess, but if you're gonna tell me we have to put up with a lousy team for 3 more years just so we can play the "wait and hope" game I'm not so sure that's gonna fill the seats enough and bring in the TV ratings enough over the next few years.

I do understand what Alderson is doing for the longterm but this is a big market city, he needs to take a split approach on it and while he's stocking up on prospects at least make a few decent FA signings to keep things interesting in the meantime. 

Yeah, I also agree that he's doing the right thing for the moment.  If you're going to get prospects, get good ones.  He's done that.  Of course the thing is the more you do that the more expectations grow.  It gets to the point where Wheeler, Harvey, Syndergaard, d'Arnaud and Nimmo HAVE to work out or it's just a complete failure.  d'Arnaud in particular is just a big injury risk.  Huge upside, but equally big downside given the situation.

So at some point he'll have to open the pocketbook (or the Wilpons will) to a certain extent in order to set up long-term success.  You want to make the smart moves, not just scooping up players to fill the roster with names but most winning teams have some solid veterans mixed in.

Last year ATW racked me over the coals over Grady Sizemore, now he has proposed Sizemore worth a look.  Sizemore is 30 and if he can get healthy he would readily be a hugh pickup at the righ price.   He is not going to start the season and I wouldn't want him on a one year deal and have ride off into the sunset if he is back and raking by July.  2 years at 2M per w/a team option for 12 seems like a minimal risk for a possible AS talent.