Star Lotuleilei or Sharif Floyd?

The more I watch these guys, the more I like them both. 

Im torn on which one I would take.

Injury flag aside, which one would you rather take?

I feel like Sharif Floyd is more polished, but he doesnt have the potential to dominante like Star.

Star would be the ideal candidate if we in fact were planning on a switch to a 3-4, while Floyd is more a 3 tech DT.

...I think if I had to choose between the two, Star's potential to become a dominant player and also his scheme versatility makes me lean toward him more.

What about everyone else? 

We dont need a 3 tech guy we need a massive run stopper. NT or DT doesn't matter as long as he can overpower blockers. We aren't looking for an interior leverage rusher. Have had enough of those. Star fits what we need.

.I think if I had to choose between the two, Star's potential to become a dominant player and also his scheme versatility makes me lean toward him more.

Agreed. I actually think Star is the more impact player now. The attention Star would command up the middle should help free up the DE's. Star would still get double teamed in the NFL, Floyd not as much.

Star if his heart is ok. He will command double teams making it easier for the rest of the DL to get sacks and LB's to be free to make tackles. There was a reason Ray Lewis asked for Baltimore to draft Ngata because it would free him up to make tackles.

Remember when we had all these discussions in 08, should the Raiders draft Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Vernon Gholsten, Chris Long. Mostly all of us thought they would go defense and they didn't, they want running back when they where already loaded at the position. Granted the guy who pulled the trigger in that draft is gone.

But my question/concern is what is wrong with Dorsey now? The Raiders cant afford to take somebody that ends up blowing up in their face this year. They have to hit on that draft pick. There is a very real possibility that Star or Floyd wont be there when the Raiders draft 3rd overall.

So often times teams draft a certain player and put him in a system he has never played in and than wonder why its not working. Dorsey and his best season was his rookie year when I believe they where running a 4 3 defense which he only played at LSU if Im not mistaken. Than they switch to a 34 and all but wasted him, much like the Raiders wasted Warren Sapp his first season here putting him in at the defensive end position, something he had never played.

Why Im typing all of this stuff is there has been rampid speculation that the Raiders eventually plan to go to a 34. Dennis Allen prefers it even though hes always been apart of 43 defenses in the NFL. Reggie McKenzie comes from the 34 school of thought with Green Bay.
My problem is if they take Star or Floyd and switch over to a 34, Star I think could play in it, Floyd Im not so sure. Floyd to me looks like a guy that would be an excellent 43 DT and if you paired him with Lamarr Houston they could have a wrecking ball up the middle. A combination of both pass rushing tackles and run stuffers. Very rare to find complete defensive tackles in the game. Its normally one strength or the other.

But again one of those guys could very well be off the board by the time the Raiders draft.

I'd much rather see the Raiders go the rte of Dorsey and even Ellis and just see what they have to offer in the 43 base. IF the Raiders plan to eventually move back to a 34, NT normally fall in the draft. And focus on the offense which is a strength and can be a strength as long as there is an adaptable mind calling plays unlike the dipsh8 they had last year.

Based on everything I've read, I would definitely take Floyd over Loutlelei at this point. Not only does Lotulelei have possible health concerns (Heart condition) but I've also heard several scouts question his motor. Now he may get cleared medically but I would never waste a top 5 pick on someone who has a questionable work ethic.

I think you have to go with Star.  I am in Utah.  I have watched the supposedly weak motor of Star.  He frequently was triple teamed on plays because the Utes didn't have anything else to throw at a defense.  The team would switch to a 3-4 and send all four LB into prevent coverage regularly.  This isn't because he has a poor motor, but everyone gets tired trying to fight a triple team each play.  Now if you put him on Oakland's DLine I don't see any problems.  Houston, Shaug, Bryant have all looked good in spots, but our LBs will look the most improved.  Suddenly, blockers don't make it to the second level and we have free LBs hitting everyone.

As was said earlier Star has the potential to be like Haloti Ngata.  You need a big guy up front like that.  If the Raider's want to get the most out of McClain, keep him on the roster.  Put Star in front of him, and trade him early in the season.  He will look amazing, not because he is talented, but because he has time to react prior to blockers hitting him in the face.


Shariff Floyd worries me because in watching his game film, he was regularly handled by one lineman.  While it was against the SEC, it was still one lineman.  Star played against lesser talent, but would push the pocket against triple teams.  When he played against USC, he mowed down most of the OL for USC.  On a couple of plays he laid out the center and the guard at the same time, then pressured the QB.  That is what we need.  Someone that will make every offense think of how disruptive he will be to their blocking scheme.  If he makes them nervous, he will automatically improve the defense.   It goes back to Al's theory of the biggest men off the bus first.  They may not play, but the image is what sticks in everyones mind.    

We dont need a 3 tech guy we need a massive run stopper. NT or DT doesn't matter as long as he can overpower blockers. We aren't looking for an interior leverage rusher. Have had enough of those. Star fits what we need.

I disagree that we need one or the other.  I'd rather us get a guy who can play both spots very well.  That way, we're covered against shifts and everything else all these offenses are 'gonna throw at us.  We're not 'gonna be very deep at DL this upcoming year.  And we need a guy we can leave out there against a lot of packages/against a lot of situations.  Massive run stoppers are good for maybe 25-30 snaps a game.  If we're 'gonna draft somebody at 3, they better be able to play every down and make an impact all over the line.  

So often times teams draft a certain player and put him in a system he has never played in and than wonder why its not working. Dorsey and his best season was his rookie year when I believe they where running a 4 3 defense which he only played at LSU if Im not mistaken.

Devilraid, this is a really good point.  That definitely happened to Dorsey and Jackson.  John Chavis (DC at LSU) plays primarily a 43.  He did a decent amount of zone blitzing, but he pretty much always 1-gaps.  KC didn't.  So right away, Pioli/Haley/Crennell, et al are taking away a few areas of Dorsey/Jackson's game that helped them get drafted so high in the first place.  My biggest hope is that whoever we draft can fit in to what we want to do, or that we're willing to tailor some things to their skill set/avoid another Greg Knapp type scenario.  

Re bringing in Dorsey or Ellis.  I'd probably pass on Ellis, as he's been in a good situation and hasn't capitalized on it.  Dorsey is worth a look, as he's been miscast almost from day 1.  He has done VERY well at what he's been asked to do, though.  And I think he can put up big numbers in a system that plays to his strengths.  

Agree 100% Aruman. Star was double or triple team for the majority of the season. Facing those type of odds will definitely wear on you. But even against those odds, he looked more disruptive to me than Floyd. In some of Floyd's highlights, he was handled by one lineman at times & was still taken out of the play. Scouts say Star only has a bull rush and Floyd has better moves, but I'm confident Star can learn more moves after he's drafted.


Hopefully the heart condition was something that showed up because of the combine, I don't see anything about him having problems before that. The heart condition may be the reason Star falls, which would allow us to trade down & still have a chance to grab him.

Honestyl, I'm not that impressed with Floyd. He's not the type of DT we need either. I'm still 100% on board with star. Star is the type of DT that commands a double team and still can put pressure on the pocket while stuffing the run. He's the kind of player that you plug in, and it makes our entire D that much better.

I'm really hoping that as the draft approaches, his heart problem will be cleared and won't be much of an issue. Now, if he's not cleared medically, I want the Raiders to trade back or grab one of the defensive ends. Bjoern Werner, Dion Jordan or Ziggy Ansah.  I just can't see Sharrif Floyd being a great player.

 

Coach, Ellis is part of my turf theory. Ellis played on natural grass his collegiant career at USC and was a stud, studly enough to be considered and drafted in the top ten. He gets drafted by a dome team that plays 8 games a year on that green concrete. I just dont think the body adapts particularly on the trenches, when you have played a majority of your career on grass surfaces leading up to that.
Orlando Pace wasnt he a Buckeye and played on that green concrete for OSU? He gets drafted by Stl. Stays on that green concrete for most of his career. Goes to a natural grass surface in Chicago and flames out. Now his age could have something to do with it as well. But Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce also both flamed out. Marshal Faulk had problems playing on grass after being drafted by a dome team in Indy and traded to a dome team in Stl.

I honestly cant think of too many guys that have been able to play on both kinds of surfaces at a high level particularly in the trenches. Lincoln Kennedy was another guy that flamed out in Atlanta, on a dome surface and comes to Oakland and is one of the best offensive lineman in all of football, was he not?

What I like about players like Dorsey, Ellis, Okoye, Rivers and some of the other former first round busts that are hitting the market is there isnt a lot of faith in them. Not many teams are gonna be willing to offer than an opportunity, certainly not to start, where as with the holes the Raiders have particularly on defense they can offer in the least the opportunity to start. Those guys big pay days are long behind them and they are gonna have to prove they belong and gonna have to do it for more than one year.

only thing that concerns me about star is that he is a 335 pound man with a heart condition. i was all about either him or floyd if we were to go DT. i just feel as tho we simply cannot afford to miss on our #3 pick and im more in favor of going with the cleaner player. that being said, floyd or warmack fits the bill for me. if the doctors can give us a 100% guarantee that star's heart condition will not be a problem, then im all about. a guy that big tho scares me at 3. if star is the guy they really want and are not all-in on floyd, then trade back, get another pick in the 2nd, and take the risk that star drops to the middle of the first. no-way i take him at 3 and run the risk of missing in the first this year with no second.

don't matter we will be taking geno anyway not what we need at #3

I got ya now, devilraid.  Now that I think about it, that theory makes a lot of sense.  I can't think of too many guys who did both very well.  Maybe the Steelers when they moved from that awful 3 Rivers turf to Heinze field, or some of those great Lions offensive guys, but that's still kind of a reach.  

i just feel as tho we simply cannot afford to miss on our #3 pick and im more in favor of going with the cleaner player. that being said, floyd or warmack fits the bill for me.

Kiff, I agree 100%.  We've got a shortage of difference-makers on this team.  We've got some solid guys whose game could be helped by a home run-type player, though.  Which brings me to this ...

What I like about players like Dorsey, Ellis, Okoye, Rivers and some of the other former first round busts that are hitting the market is there isnt a lot of faith in them. Not many teams are gonna be willing to offer than an opportunity, certainly not to start, where as with the holes the Raiders have particularly on defense they can offer in the least the opportunity to start. Those guys big pay days are long behind them and they are gonna have to prove they belong and gonna have to do it for more than one year.

I really like these types of guys as an option to build up our roster.  None of them have turned into the Pro-Bowlers that sports writers were hyping them up to be.  But the ones who still have the desire can be very good players.  I think all of them could go a long way towards helping us shore up our roster.  All of them will come cheap, and all of them have the talent to do well ... just haven't put it all together for one reason or another.  I'd much rather have a roster with those guys playing around our difference-makers, as opposed to a bunch of less-talented UDFAs and late-rounders.    


 

We need more details on Star's heart condition. If its something serious then the risk might be too high to take the guy @ #3. Maybe trade the pick.

Sharif idk. Sometimes he looked good. Others not so much.

They have to hit on that draft pick. There is a very real possibility that Star or Floyd wont be there when the Raiders draft 3rd overall. 

I don't think so, Devil.  With KC cutting Winston and the Jags cutting, pretty much, their entire starting DB core, I think Luke Joeckel and Dee Milliner are all but gone.  Personally, unless the player we absolutely want is there at 3, I could see us actually having that chance to trade down now.

We simply cannot take a guy with health issues. Period. That is the way of the old regime. We are ona 3.5 year rebuild. We need someone for the long haul.

Other - Jarvis Jones.

Demontre Moore?

I like Demontre Moore but he's falling after a Terrible combine and almost as bad proday. I doubt he falls out of the 1st but it would be awesome to get him in the 2nd. I firmly believe well move back a little and get a 2nd rd pick. As long as we fill a need along the lines or a play maker in Jones or Jordan I'm happy. I think Cleveland wants Dion Jordan and so does Philly so a trade with Browns could happen.