Official Stop OBAMA Express!!!

Red...this whole debate really intensified because of Newtown massacre. Background checks did their job. The shooter was declined a purchase of weapons because of it.

Your point proves nothing.  Had his mommy kept her arsenal under lock and key where only she could get access to it, Newtown would not have happened.  So, to an extent, stricter controls and background check are a good idea.  Are you aware that the Holmes shootout in Colorado happened because this bozo had easy access to purchasing not only weapons but munitions online?  Again, stricter controls and background checks would have helped.   

Like the vast majority of killers...they break laws leading up to them commiting these types of crimes

Neither the Newtown killer NOR the Aurora Colorado killer have any history of criminal activity.  So why the lie?

Everything proposed so far by the left or the potus would not have stopped any of the massacres...

Pure conjecture on your part.  Even a ban of certain weapons will not eliminate killings overnight (or even in a decade for that matter).  

we both agree that mental illness is the root of the problem and needs to be addressed.

No we don't and I'll tell you why.  Are we to expect to keep everyone with some form of mental illness under lock and key?  It would be impossible to do.  So, here is what transpires, those that can be treated and don't give the appearance of being a menace to themselves or society as a whole are allowed to go free.  And yet what happened in Arizona?  That guy went off his meds---didn't like the way they were making him feel...the same I believe happened with the Colorado shootout as well.  So, what's left to do?  Stricter background checks....A longer waiting period befor buying weapons to insure better background checks, Putting more of the responsibility of shootings on the people that actually own the guns.  Banning outright purchases online unless online sellers agree to do background checks as well. NO one at a gun show should be allowed to walk out of said show with the gun purchased (or the munitions for that matter).  At gun shows there isn't enough time to have a thorough check.  YOu might be able to give a green light for the state the purchaser currently lives in but it's going to cover an indiviudals complete history---in a matter of minutes/hours. 

Finally, let's be honest, very few of these mass shootings are done with simple single load rifle or even a pistol that you can only fill with six bulletsat a time. Somehow all these lunatics aren't so crazy as to know which types of weapons they need to create mass destruction and procure them.  THAT has nothing to do with mental illness but rather the easy access to such weapons.      
 
 
 

  

I said they MOVE to find a better life. Trapped my arse...they have the means to move...

...and many non-immigrants, specifically, poor black folks find the means to move away from those tough areas every day...so stop trying to sell this immigrants are the only ones smart enough move away from that premise when its not true...non-immigrants do the same every day...and I'll say it again..many of the poor here, are born into poverty, multiple generations of poverty...many immigrants come here from other places with the means already to be able to do so...again, its apples and oranges...

.blaming the wall street and bankers at this point isn't logical....

...the point wasn't to blame wall st, although they are to blame, but to show how flawed your thinking is, since they received tremendous help in fixing their problems, and from WHOM??...if I'm poor, uneducated, and unemployed, living in the poorest neighborhood in town and I got assistance to the tune of hundreds of thousands or millions, or billions of dollars from the government, taxpayer dollars, I probably could find a way to get out of that poor neighborhood too fairly easily....

...poor people, uneducated people, got approved for loans for homes they could not afford...approved, of course, by Smarter, supposedly Qualified decision mkaers, who were paid to do the job of not allowing unworthy people the access to credit, certainly not allowing more risk that could possibly collapse the system...then when the smart people made bad decisions, that lead to the collapse of the system, the first in line to receive relief, were the smart people, with the money and the means to help themselves, who were most responsible for the collapse in the first place...and then clowns like you come along and say, well, poor, uneducated, jobless people should learn how to get of the that bad neighborhood...simply asinine....

...and I'll ask the same question I've asked many  times before, that none of you have been big enough to answer...the clowns always want to assess what poor communities are doing today, what poor people are doing  for themselves today, as if all of the conditions today occured in a vacuum, and simply because those people allowed or wanted those conditions to exist...starting today, if you took the next 100 years where society collectively stripped the white community of family, culture, traditions, etc....discriminated against you for jobs, government power and representation ,educational opportunities, housing, ownership abilites and wealth creation opportunities,etc...in 100 years , how well do you believe white folks would collectively be doing compared to other groups??...and notice I didn't even throw in a few hundred years of slavery, bondage, a genocide of sorts, that tried to strip people of all dignity and worth...tell me how the white community landscape would look for your  kids, grandkids, great grandkids, generations into the future???

***Red...come on...you can't be serious. This depression we are currently in has offered up many lessons in life that our govenment should look at seriously and implement them. When a two income family suddenly find themselves a one income family...what do they do?

They cut spending! Instead of a gas guzzler, they trade to a more fuel efficient vehicle, instead of steak...they eat hamburger....they cut to make ends meet...the mortgage gets paid and all discrecinary spending gets cut that can get cut. Why the government and the left doesn't get it is beyond me?

Yet that has not worked for everyone.  Some out of expediancy have had to use unemployment benefits.  Some have also had to use welfare.  In all fairness those numbers I believe are greater than the ones you talk about.  The left gets it, the right just doesn't believe that those that I mentioned have been in the majority.

 Did the dems get a raise in revenue at years end? Yes...the GOP went with it with the promise of cuts...apparently, the dems lied again about the deal..have you seen a detailed list of cuts proposed by a dem? Has obama formulated a plan?

How many times  and in how many directions does this have to be said.  Neither party over the last 3-4 decades has done anything to cut/remove programs.  The biggest reason for that is that most or Washington has realized that said programs were necessary.  The programs can be run more efficiently/effectively but to do that you need enough revenue. The lousy tax increase isn't enough to do that. 

Interesting story Red...my town has faced the same issues recently. We, as a city voted through referrendum to overide the school budget to address these issues. Is my taxes going to go up? Yes, and my fellow citizens feel its worth it.

Except the general perception of "your state" isn't one of conservatism.  Look at how even a state the size of Texas is hanling education...It's abysmal.

BTW, the difference between private and public sector streamlining and an increase in efficiency is simple...in the private sector is either you realize your companies deficiencies and make changes or you risk going out of business.

Not really you just mover your business to another country. 

How about a reality check here Red...the private sector does the same things as I mentioned above that families do or they go out of business....that is a fact.

Maybe for mom and pop shops, but I have been discussing from the get go the big businesses...they DON'T go our of business, just move out of the country...why is that so difficult for you to understand?

BTW Red...what is the most expensive part of business? It's labor...another fact. Also, private businesses DO NOT look at cutting it first however....they look at cutting other items first such as operating income, raw material costs, they lean on vendors to get better deals...they cross train personel, they implement efficiency programs...how do I know? That's my job!

Then I'd look for another line of work.....fail to the max 


   
   


   
 

 

   
 
  
 

Red...this whole debate really intensified because of Newtown massacre. Background checks did their job. The shooter was declined a purchase of weapons because of it.

Your point proves nothing.  Had his mommy kept her arsenal under lock and key where only she could get access to it, Newtown would not have happened.  So, to an extent, stricter controls and background check are a good idea.  Are you aware that the Holmes shootout in Colorado happened because this bozo had easy access to purchasing not only weapons but munitions online?  Again, stricter controls and background checks would have helped.  

***Proof is he broke the law and stole his mothers guns...stole and broke the law. What part of that doesn't resonate with you? It doesn't matter if she had guns or not...he stole them to commit the crime. The background check prevented him from buying guns on his own and he sought another avenue to get them...mission accomplished. 

Would they have prevented Aurora? Possibly?
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Like the vast majority of killers...they break laws leading up to them commiting these types of crimes

Neither the Newtown killer NOR the Aurora Colorado killer have any history of criminal activity.  So why the lie?

****No, mental desease...hence the red flag on Newtown killer...

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Everything proposed so far by the left or the potus would not have stopped any of the massacres...

Pure conjecture on your part.  Even a ban of certain weapons will not eliminate killings overnight (or even in a decade for that matter). 

****The worst part of the arguement here. So, you ban certain weapons and ammo from those that go through and pass background checks...goody...you stopped the lawful citizen but, last time I checked criminals don't subject themselves to background checks...advantage BAD GUY...AGAIN! 
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we both agree that mental illness is the root of the problem and needs to be addressed.

No we don't and I'll tell you why.  Are we to expect to keep everyone with some form of mental illness under lock and key?  It would be impossible to do.  So, here is what transpires, those that can be treated and don't give the appearance of being a menace to themselves or society as a whole are allowed to go free.  And yet what happened in Arizona?  That guy went off his meds---didn't like the way they were making him feel...the same I believe happened with the Colorado shootout as well.  So, what's left to do?  Stricter background checks....A longer waiting period befor buying weapons to insure better background checks, Putting more of the responsibility of shootings on the people that actually own the guns.  Banning outright purchases online unless online sellers agree to do background checks as well. NO one at a gun show should be allowed to walk out of said show with the gun purchased (or the munitions for that matter).  At gun shows there isn't enough time to have a thorough check.  YOu might be able to give a green light for the state the purchaser currently lives in but it's going to cover an indiviudals complete history---in a matter of minutes/hours. 

***Again, waiting periods only will punish the law abiding citizen and NOT the criminal...check the stats on show sales of guns and come back and tell me there is a problem. 

Finally, let's be honest, very few of these mass shootings are done with simple single load rifle or even a pistol that you can only fill with six bulletsat a time. Somehow all these lunatics aren't so crazy as to know which types of weapons they need to create mass destruction and procure them.  THAT has nothing to do with mental illness but rather the easy access to such weapons. 

***When you ban certain weapons and certain clips...say to ten shot on law abiding citizens...who among us will still have guns with thirty round clips and AK's? Will it be the hunter? Will it be the sportsman? 

If you were to ban all weapons and ammo...these types would find alternative ways to commit mass murder...they could use a vehicle, they could poison water supplies...hell, they might even make a bomb out of fertilizer and deisel fuel...
     
 
 
 

  

***Red...come on...you can't be serious. This depression we are currently in has offered up many lessons in life that our govenment should look at seriously and implement them. When a two income family suddenly find themselves a one income family...what do they do?

They cut spending! Instead of a gas guzzler, they trade to a more fuel efficient vehicle, instead of steak...they eat hamburger....they cut to make ends meet...the mortgage gets paid and all discrecinary spending gets cut that can get cut. Why the government and the left doesn't get it is beyond me?

Yet that has not worked for everyone.  Some out of expediancy have had to use unemployment benefits.  Some have also had to use welfare.  In all fairness those numbers I believe are greater than the ones you talk about.  The left gets it, the right just doesn't believe that those that I mentioned have been in the majority.

****You don't have a clue to what you are talking about...
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 Did the dems get a raise in revenue at years end? Yes...the GOP went with it with the promise of cuts...apparently, the dems lied again about the deal..have you seen a detailed list of cuts proposed by a dem? Has obama formulated a plan?

How many times  and in how many directions does this have to be said.  Neither party over the last 3-4 decades has done anything to cut/remove programs.  The biggest reason for that is that most or Washington has realized that said programs were necessary.  The programs can be run more efficiently/effectively but to do that you need enough revenue. The lousy tax increase isn't enough to do that. 

****Necassary? No, the government made people depend on many of these programs. Its the desease this country has been inflicting for years now...once dependent on government...people always look for government to answers...effing sad...
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Interesting story Red...my town has faced the same issues recently. We, as a city voted through referrendum to overide the school budget to address these issues. Is my taxes going to go up? Yes, and my fellow citizens feel its worth it.

Except the general perception of "your state" isn't one of conservatism.  Look at how even a state the size of Texas is hanling education...It's abysmal.

***In case you missed the point...Its a local thing...if the town, city, village doesn't see the benefit...you haven't a chance...
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BTW, the difference between private and public sector streamlining and an increase in efficiency is simple...in the private sector is either you realize your companies deficiencies and make changes or you risk going out of business.

Not really you just mover your business to another country.

****Here is where the left keeps failing. NO company would leave a state or the country if the taxation wasn't so out of whack compared to the rest of the world...believe it or not...its expensive to move...
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How about a reality check here Red...the private sector does the same things as I mentioned above that families do or they go out of business....that is a fact.

Maybe for mom and pop shops, but I have been discussing from the get go the big businesses...they DON'T go our of business, just move out of the country...why is that so difficult for you to understand?

***Silly man...the largest segment of job creators in this country come from what you term "Mom and Pops" shops...they don't have the luzury of picking up and moving...most grew up in the town their business is in and don't have the local connection to the people from other towns...

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BTW Red...what is the most expensive part of business? It's labor...another fact. Also, private businesses DO NOT look at cutting it first however....they look at cutting other items first such as operating income, raw material costs, they lean on vendors to get better deals...they cross train personel, they implement efficiency programs...how do I know? That's my job!

Then I'd look for another line of work.....fail to the max 


***Nice cheap shot...I work with business owners daily. NONE of them are trying to figure out a way to find an advantage elsewhere. They ALL are trying to make it a go where they currently do business...

Maybe, a visit to some of those "Mom and Pops" shops would be an eye opener for you...they have more to say then what see or read in the news...


   
   


   
 

 

   
 
  
 

...and I'll ask the same question I've asked many  times before, that none of you have been big enough to answer...the clowns always want to assess what poor communities are doing today, what poor people are doing  for themselves today, as if all of the conditions today occured in a vacuum, and simply because those people allowed or wanted those conditions to exist...starting today, if you took the next 100 years where society collectively stripped the white community of family, culture, traditions, etc....discriminated against you for jobs, government power and representation ,educational opportunities, housing, ownership abilites and wealth creation opportunities,etc...in 100 years , how well do you believe white folks would collectively be doing compared to other groups??...and notice I didn't even throw in a few hundred years of slavery, bondage, a genocide of sorts, that tried to strip people of all dignity and worth...tell me how the white community landscape would look for your  kids, grandkids, great grandkids, generations into the future???

That is a stupid arguement...lets argue a hypothetical instead of discussing what is at hand.

Let me ask you this...did you come from wealth? Did you put yourself through school? Did you have a loving family and home? Did you take advantage of what was out there?

Why aren't successful black people lauded instead of vilified? Why is it so many times successful black people are dis-owned in their communities and called names like "Uncle Toms" and such?

Every race is just one generation away from success...

That is a stupid arguement....

sure its stupid to you, because it requires you to look at yourself in a different circumstance...which you don't even want to imagine the hypothesis, because it will require you to make an honest statement about the debate at hand...its easier instead to just call the hypothesis stupid...its lame azz cop out, that I expected you to answer with....

...No, I didn't come from wealth...raised in a 2 parent home, neither parent's family able to afford college, but they worked hard and sacrificed and they were able to  put me and my 3 brothers through college, and give us a great life...but simply because I am fortunate to have that life and support system, it doesn't allow me to discount those folks across the street that don't have what I have...or may have different circumstances that put them in a different place...

Why aren't successful black people lauded instead of vilified?...

 

...why have white folks through history continually given black folks less than a fair share of opportunites, and credit for accomplishments...quit asking me WHY??..and you answer WHY???...but don't start asking about last week....go back in time and explain why people did what they did, and what were the ramifications of what they did...from Jackie Robinson, to MLK to Bill Russell to Muhammad Ali, to Hank Aaron to Jesse Jackson, to Barack Obama...those are just a few very successful and admired black people and yet they all faced hurdles, criticism, indignities all along the way from white society...so don't ask me why some minority of black folks are critical, explain to us the societal vilification against blacks who were great at their accomplishments and highly successful people...if these people who were great at what they have offered society could face those kinds of challenges, imagine what blacks, with less talent, less educated, less opportunities must have gone through from day to day...if the most accomplished and admired got treated with such disrepect, imagine what my mom, dad, grandma and granddad must have had to face...if that doesn't wake you up to reality then what will???

That is a stupid arguement....

sure its stupid to you, because it requires you to look at yourself in a different circumstance...which you don't even want to imagine the hypothesis, because it will require you to make an honest statement about the debate at hand...its easier instead to just call the hypothesis stupid...its lame azz cop out, that I expected you to answer with....

...No, I didn't come from wealth...raised in a 2 parent home, neither parent's family able to afford college, but they worked hard and sacrificed and they were able to  put me and my 3 brothers through college, and give us a great life...but simply because I am fortunate to have that life and support system, it doesn't allow me to discount those folks across the street that don't have what I have...or may have different circumstances that put them in a different place...

*** I would have guessed just that on your background...cudos to you and your parents...

BTW, this whitey is a second generation American. My father came from a Scandanavian country with little to his name and only the promise of a better life in front of him...his hard work made him a success...he didn't let the language barrier get in the way...only the determination to make a better life got him to where he was able raise seven children...all of which are successful because of his hard work...

Also, my background in this country isn't responsible for what you say happened...maybe, another white, several generation poster can give you an answer...

Why aren't successful black people lauded instead of vilified?...

 

...why have white folks through history continually given black folks less than a fair share of opportunites, and credit for accomplishments...quit asking me WHY??..and you answer WHY???...but don't start asking about last week....go back in time and explain why people did what they did, and what were the ramifications of what they did...from Jackie Robinson, to MLK to Bill Russell to Muhammad Ali, to Hank Aaron to Jesse Jackson, to Barack Obama...those are just a few very successful and admired black people and yet they all faced hurdles, criticism, indignities all along the way from white society...so don't ask me why some minority of black folks are critical, explain to us the societal vilification against blacks who were great at their accomplishments and highly successful people...if these people who were great at what they have offered society could face those kinds of challenges, imagine what blacks, with less talent, less educated, less opportunities must have gone through from day to day...if the most accomplished and admired got treated with such disrepect, imagine what my mom, dad, grandma and granddad must have had to face...if that doesn't wake you up to reality then what will???


***of the names given above...Jackie Robinson, Ali, Russell, Aaron, MLK are seen in the white community as heroes as well...Jesse Jackson and obama? Not so much...

Again, I can't respond to your point as to why blacks were treated differently...I'm sure some Japanese Americans felt the same way during WWII, I'm sure the Irish felt that way early in the last century...I'm pretty sure Italians did too...recently the Hmong immigrants found some opposition...and now the Mexican immigrants...to a large degree there were many who faced the same hurdles...history proves it wasn't the color of skin that automatically meant discriminate.

..oh so you have an opinion on every political issue under the sun here, you can write for days, on any topic, you will even question black behavior at every turn,  but on the issue of why white people did certain things , to their "HEROS", like MLK, Ali, Russell...you have no opinion or answers as to why that occurred, which was 1960's , 1970's behavior...LOL...typical clown response...you're such a serious debater, so knowlegable...you can explain Japanese Americans, and Irish, and Italian immigrants , but can't figure out the disrespectful treatment of blacks by whites because you haven't been here long enough....but blacks have been here for centuries, and the treatment, conditions and disparities are well documented...what a clown...LOL

bsting

I wonder if it is easier to recognize someone's ethnicity at a glance

Personally I am able to do it

Put a german, a Frenchman, an Irishman, a canadian, a sweede, and a norwegian in a room with a black guy, and I can pick out the black guy every time

..oh so you have an opinion on every political issue under the sun here, you can write for days, on any topic, you will even question black behavior at every turn,  but on the issue of why white people did certain things , to their "HEROS", like MLK, Ali, Russell...you have no opinion or answers as to why that occurred, which was 1960's , 1970's behavior...LOL...typical clown response...you're such a serious debater, so knowlegable...you can explain Japanese Americans, and Irish, and Italian immigrants , but can't figure out the disrespectful treatment of blacks by whites because you haven't been here long enough....but blacks have been here for centuries, and the treatment, conditions and disparities are well documented...what a clown...LOL

lol...my discussion included questions as to how to change things...

Black behavior? As in the Black on Black killing fields of the inner city? That behavior? I asked you why you don't see that type of behavior from Asian Americans of the inner city and you ignored it...it must be a culture thing, huh?

You...just blame whitey for all ills facing the blacks of this country...sorry pal...dwelling on the past will get you no where...

What is going to happen from here on out? What are your solutions? To date...you have offered up NOTHING but BLAME!

Love the "Clown" thing...is that all you have?

Bstng solutions__________________________
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bsting

I wonder if it is easier to recognize someone's ethnicity at a glance

Personally I am able to do it

Put a german, a Frenchman, an Irishman, a canadian, a sweede, and a norwegian in a room with a black guy, and I can pick out the black guy every time

try and pick out the black canadian out of a crowd of other blacks...

it must be a culture thing, huh?...

...yes its all culture related...but the white culture that treated Jackie, Bill and Ali so poorly, that you have a hard time remembering or explaining, and can't, won't comment on....the culture that says you don't want a black nurse tending to your white newborn baby, the culture that allows you to slap a N--- baby on a plane, the culture that has a national news network that poo-poos, a 102 year old woman that is the guest of the President's SOTU address, and refers to her as who cares??, big deal, what did she do??... well lets not talk about that culture, huh?...

...as for the solutions, i offered a few...invest in the poor urban communities in the same way we invested in turning the banks around, the same we invested in Iraq and Afghanistan...I don't recall any banks complaining that they didn't get enough help......a poor , unemployed, uneducated person gets a monthly check to cover monthly expenses, MAYBE, nothing left to do anything with beyond the necessities...a fulltime job at minimum wage , leaves you still far below the poverty line...show me where we have invested in our crumbling cities, any where near to the proportion we have invested in wars, and military spending the past 30 years and then you can talk...priorities have been the problem...we invest where we want to invest....whats the tally for the 2 wars to date???....imagine those dollars, even half those dollars going to the poorest communities instead...if we want to fix the crumbling inner cities across this country , we could do it...we haven't.

bsting  I haven't verified this   I heard on a talk show that 46 million are below the poverty line, and that 145 million Americans are struggling to put food on the table and meet their financial commitments every month

Have you heard that?

it must be a culture thing, huh?...

...yes its all culture related...but the white culture that treated Jackie, Bill and Ali so poorly, that you have a hard time remembering or explaining, and can't, won't comment on....the culture that says you don't want a black nurse tending to your white newborn baby, the culture that allows you to slap a N--- baby on a plane, the culture that has a national news network that poo-poos, a 102 year old woman that is the guest of the President's SOTU address, and refers to her as who cares??, big deal, what did she do??... well lets not talk about that culture, huh?...

***Jesus Christ...that poor woman at the speech the other night had no fricking clue where she was at nor did she have an idea she was being used as a prop...It wouldn't have mattered the color of her damn skin...they could have put a woman of any color in that position...It was a pathetic display...they should be ashamed of themselves...

Were some people treated unfairly? Of course they were...there is no arguement on this from me...the dick on the plane ought to have been beaten for his behavior...

BTW, do you think the white culture you blame for the past exists today?
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...as for the solutions, i offered a few...invest in the poor urban communities in the same way we invested in turning the banks around, the same we invested in Iraq and Afghanistan...I don't recall any banks complaining that they didn't get enough help......a poor , unemployed, uneducated person gets a monthly check to cover monthly expenses, MAYBE, nothing left to do anything with beyond the necessities...a fulltime job at minimum wage , leaves you still far below the poverty line...show me where we have invested in our crumbling cities, any where near to the proportion we have invested in wars, and military spending the past 30 years and then you can talk...priorities have been the problem...we invest where we want to invest....whats the tally for the 2 wars to date???....imagine those dollars, even half those dollars going to the poorest communities instead...if we want to fix the crumbling inner cities across this country , we could do it...we haven't

***What was done to public housing in the inner cities? Was it kept up? Did the residents take pride in it? With a history like that it is going to be hard to muster up support for more funding unless the criminal element is removed...

If this happens I would be for exactly what you propose...

try and pick out the black canadian out of a crowd of other blacks...

...black canadian, black mexican, black jamaican, black chinese....its all black....whats your point....is your dad, from the secret scandinavian country, a black scandinavian??....is that what you're suggesting???

try and pick out the black canadian out of a crowd of other blacks...

...black canadian, black mexican, black jamaican, black chinese....its all black....whats your point....is your dad, from the secret scandinavian country, a black scandinavian??....is that what you're suggesting???


***Dipchit made the point that it is easy to target blacks because they stick out of the crowd...and I'm saying groups such as the IRISH were targeted and the color of their skin...DIDN'T MATTER...btw, targeted by other whites...

It happened regardless of skin color...

.that poor woman at the speech the other night had no fricking clue where she was at nor did she have an idea she was being used as a prop...It wouldn't have mattered the color of her damn skin...they could have put a woman of any color in that position...It was a pathetic display...they should be ashamed of themselves...

to be 102 year olds and ABLE to be there should have been enough for you to admire, the woman did no harm to you...which is exactly why you and clowns that said what they did are called out as clowns....her being there had little to do with her being black or 102 years old...it was the fact that she was strong and determined and  stood in line for 3 hours to make her vote count...thats what you idiots want to ignore, her being acknowledged probably inspired millions who may not have voted before, or for young people not at voting age yet...no matter what obstacles the clowns put in your way, extra long ballots, limited machines, fewer polling booths, fewer hours to vote, strong and determined people will overcome...the vote is too important to give in to clowns...but again, thats that "culture" thing popping up again, and you don't want to talk about it...huh??...rather take shots at the little old lady...you're a coward... 

All I can say is I'm glad I'm not Irish

can anyone conceive of how torturous life in the south in the 50's, would have been for the Irish

Makes me shiver at the very thought