Minor League System

An arbritrary ranking and $.99 gets you any size iced tea at Dunkin Donuts this month, but zero wins for the PBC. 

An arbritrary ranking and $.99 gets you any size iced tea at Dunkin Donuts this month, but zero wins for the PBC.

Right. Because the best way to judge your current farm system is to judge your current major league team. 

And it is not an arbitrary ranking. Thats not what arbitrary means... 

Right. Because the best way to judge your current farm system is to judge your current major league team. 

You're right.  The farm system is good and the current team has been terrible for 20 years.  Clearly there is no connection, otherwise the MLB team would begin to be good, you would think, at some point.


And it is not an arbitrary ranking. Thats not what arbitrary means... 

It was produced by PiratesProspects.com.  Unless you can prove this is an unbiased, objective source then it is arbitrary.  That is what the word means.

It was produced by PiratesProspects.com.  Unless you can prove this is an unbiased, objective source then it is arbitrary.  That is what the word means.

So then for the most part, what you say most of the time would be arbitrary.  Not to mention everything isn't arbitrary in the article.  There are a lot of facts that back up what was said.  Not so with what you spew, like blaming the last 20 years of having a losing record on NH and his last 5 years.  You should be a Royals fan, they haven't had a playoff appearance in 27 years.  How is their system doing?

You're right.  The farm system is good and the current team has been terrible for 20 years.  Clearly there is no connection, otherwise the MLB team would begin to be good, you would think, at some point. 

What??? What does the state of the farm system for the psat 20 years have to do with how it is NOW? Most of the "NH apologists" credit NH for building the farm system....so yes, i agree the farm system has been bad in recent history.

I guess this means the team will somehow become good before the farm system does. Logic seems to dictate it would be the other way around, since an improved farm system usually leads to an improved pro team. But i guess not.  

It was produced by PiratesProspects.com.  Unless you can prove this is an unbiased, objective source then it is arbitrary.  That is what the word means.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/

1215761-mlb-power-rankings-re-ranki

ng-all-30-mlb-farm-systems-post-dra

ft/page/25

http://www.thefanatic.net/threads/k

eith-laws-1-30-team-farm-system-ran

kings.7647/

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/a

rticle.php?articleid=16208

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012

/1/23/2728027/2012-baseball-farm-sy

stem-rankings-prospects

Those are the first 4 I clicked on. 3 have the Bucs in the top 10, one has them at 12th. What am I missing???? 


I posted the above in a different thread, but it wasnt acknowledged. Are all of the above biased too? Is the Pirates prospects article biased? Maybe. But probably far less biased than people around here.  

But probably far less biased than people around here.  

Very true. 

You're right.  The farm system is good and the current team has been terrible for 20 years.  Clearly there is no connection, otherwise the MLB team would begin to be good, you would think, at some point.

It hasn't been good for the 20 years. I don't know the exact numbers, but the Pirates were somewhere near the bottom 5 when this management took over.

It was produced by PiratesProspects.com.  Unless you can prove this is an unbiased, objective source then it is arbitrary.  That is what the word means.

I think Sea posted about 4 other sources on another thread that had the Pirates in the top 10 (one may have been just otuside the top 10). Are they all arbitrary?

Nevermind the second part to my previous post.

Pete, I guess until anyone actually moves up to the MLB team and does anything at all...I'll have little faith in "THE GREATEST F.O. in sports" promises of great productive players coming up and continuing the DYNASTY"

Overall, with the money for overslot plus the top picks year in and year out...the overall ratings will be higher on boards via they drafted higher rated guys using the overslot plus again paying the top picks...what's concerning is the lack of dominant numbers (or even good numbers on many of the overslot kids).

I guess I'm a "SHOW ME" type of guy...if you cant dominate kids in lower levels, I dont believe you can dominate pro's anytime in the near future...I hope I am shown I am wrong but I dont believe I am.

Pete, I guess until anyone actually moves up to the MLB team and does anything at all...I'll have little faith in "THE GREATEST F.O. in sports" promises of great productive players coming up and continuing the DYNASTY"

This wasnt an NH thread. It was a thread about the farm system. This isnt a FO promise, its an article(and there are several) that ranks the Bucs farm system highly.

I believe I said before I felt there was inherent talent in the system...also with all the overslot and top 5 picks we have had...many authors w/ acticles will rate the system somewhat highly because of all the "higher rated prospects" they drafted (mentioned earlier w/ overslot ect,,,)

I said until anyone NH drafts is close to truly helping this team in a meaningful way...I have little faith in their system.

Eventually A ball guys have to work there way up and hopefully become more consistent and more dominant...that has not been the case, the results are up and down w/ these kids and dominance?  YEAH RIGHT...

many authors w/ acticles will rate the system somewhat highly because of all the "higher rated prospects" they drafted (mentioned earlier w/ overslot ect,,,)

I am missing the flaw. Isnt that what you try to do when rating farm systems??

I dont get it. You asked in another thread where anyone had the Bucs ranked in the top 10. So obviously, if authors rank the system poorly, you put some credibility into it, but as soon as we point out a lot of people who think highly of the system, you suddenly dont care about these things.  

I hadn't read anyone had the bucs in the top 10...and since have read 1 having them 8th I believe...so I am corrected there I guess.

Farm system ratings...with all the overslot and top 5 picks, there's highly rated kids in the system...as I said before I believe there's inherent talent...it is either ALL SCOUTS are wrong on these kids or our volleyball developmental guru hasn't done a very good job developing these kids.

YOU KNOW MY THOUGHTS THERE.

When I say I have little faith in expecting anything soon or significant from our system...ratings on high end kids are great, but unless they are developed properly and actually begin consistently producing better results as they move up....I have little faith that there's help anytime soon.

JMHO

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty stoked to see how the Robinson, Sands, Clement battle plays out in Indy. 

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty stoked to see how the Robinson, Sands, Clement battle plays out in Indy. 

  How is this a bad thing?  I'm guessing Robinson and Clement play first and Sands plays OF.  Or maybe you're saying competition is a bad thing? Just another one of your informational posts.

 How is this a bad thing?

There is nothing wrong with trading former all-stars for guys in their late-20's/early 30s to battle for a position in AAA.  Isn't that the goal?  Build the minor league system (regardless of age and ability), dump players as soon as they become good and would require payment, and never put a plan in place to win at the MLB level.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the plan, as we have seen since 2007.  Now, if the plan included any type of success at the MLB level, then it would be a horrible failure. 

But that isn't the point of this thread; we're only concerned with this largely successful minor league system.  Anyone want to post odds on the over/under for the Cutch dump?  I'll put it at July, 2015.  Come August, 2015, the system will be re-flooded with loads of talent.  Sorry I get so caught up with expectations of winning at the MLB level.  Sooooo shortsighted.         

 

Hanny for trout. Any other gm would've made it happen. I mean he was an ALL-STAR, don't teams understand that? Not to mention, relievers are the most vital part of any team. Hanny was an all-star, why didn't they get an all-star back? Did NH even try to turn "force trade" on??

Hanny for trout. Any other gm would've made it happen. I mean he was an ALL-STAR, don't teams understand that? Not to mention, relievers are the most vital part of any team. Hanny was an all-star, why didn't they get an all-star back? Did NH even try to turn "force trade" on??


I like when you make up things that you think I say. It's pretty funny, and way off.  I just think you can do better than acquiring washed up, never-will-be, old minor leaguers for all-stars.  You, apparently, think that is ridiculous. 


Just lose, baby!  Oh wait, there are some good minor leaguers somewhere in the system!


      

    

I like when you make up things that you think I say. It's pretty funny, and way off

I agree. Lord knows you have never done anything like that... 

I don't actually think you said that. Do you only understand sarcasm when it's used to bash the bucs?

Although you are right, you never specifically said who they should've got for hanny. Its easier to bury your head in thesand and bash. Remember Hanny was an ALL-STAR! Did I mention that?!?! Did you even know that?! 

SOG, you very, very rarely offer anything but defense of what the Bucs do and attack those who disagree.  I mostly criticize one bad move after another, but at least I add something. 


I'm sorry you see no value in all-stars and feel they are worth the same as old, career minor leaguers.  Winning teams don't value them the same.  They are not the same.  All-stars help teams win, washed up minor leaguers don't do anything, except maybe add a name to a minor league scouting report.  I don't expect the world for Hanrahan, but at least a player who can play in the majors, not a bunch of guys who fill bench seats in minor league parks.  They gave away a good player for nothing, and you bash ME for that.  Logical.    

When was the last time the Bucs traded a handful of castaways and never-will-bes for a solid major leaguer?  Oh right, the Wandy deal.  Great trade, been saying it since it happen.  Otherwise, the Bucs are on the wrong end of these moves far, far too many times. 


 

SOG, you very, very rarely offer anything but defense of what the Bucs do and attack those who disagree.  I mostly criticize one bad move after another, but at least I add something.

Unfortunately, very, very rarely means i still offer more than you, which is absolutely nothing. Unless randomly dropping in sarcastic comments to reiterate the same point over and over counts as something. 

This thread is a perfect example of what you offer...in response to Conman posting an article about the Pirates minor league system, specifically behind its top name players, you.....immediately start whining. No legit discussion, no intelligent posts, just completely ignore the entire article because it didnt fit in with your "bash the FO" mentality. 

In this entire thread, you contributed literally nothing of substance until you turned the conversation back to the Hanrahan thread. Which wasnt what this thread was about at all. You are right, you certainly do add something.....

I'm sorry you see no value in all-stars and feel they are worth the same as old, career minor leaguers.

Didnt you just accuse me of putting words in your mouth? At least I was joking. Pretty hilarious that you are doing the EXACT thing you were just whining about literally a few posts ago.  
 

In this entire thread, you contributed literally nothing of substance until you turned the conversation back to the Hanrahan thread. Which wasnt what this thread was about at all. You are right, you certainly do add something.....
  

Perfect example of what I'm talking about.  No talking points, good or bad, about the Bucs, just getting after someone who disagrees with an action.  That's fine if you don't believe I add anything, but tell me, what do you add to these conversations?  

At the very least in this thread, I added more articles rating the Pirates farm system, I believe 3 had them 8th, and one had them 12th.

Regardless, I read the article and found it interesting. I didnt immediately bash it as meaningless like you did. Even when I engaged your idea that this article was biased, which was a big part of your initial bashing, and provided other unbiased sources, you completely ignored it, instead opting to hijack the thread into bashing the hanrahan deal. 

I said until anyone NH drafts is close to truly helping this team in a meaningful way...I have little faith in their system.

Pedro? Marte (OK not a draft pick, but still a NH signing)? Cole and Taillon are rigth there in AAA. He's made plenty of mistakes like Moskos, Allie, and Sanchez, but the state of the farm system is nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be.

Pete, Marte was a DL signing I believe...

I know there are bigger names at AA and Cole going to AAA...but again a high 3's ERA for Tallion...he's young and talented...he should be dominating w/ his pedigree...Cole?  We'll see what he does in AAA, his numbers are far from dominant but he has talent...

Not saying there's no talent, just saying the developmental team is so poor that the talent may never reach close to potential.

I think some think I am saying there's no talent...what I am stating is I have little faith that any of NH's draft picks actually reach their potential and truly help this team...

Alvarez had an OK year...has he reached his potential? I hope not but I am much more concerned about the pitchers he's accumilated.

Pete, Marte was a DL signing I believe...

He signed in 2007 and NH took over in 2007. So if it was DL, then it was one of the last things he did. Even so, he still came up through NH's system that is incapable of developing any talent.

Not saying there's no talent, just saying the developmental team is so poor that the talent may never reach close to potential.

You said "until anyone actually moves up to the MLB team and does anything at all...I'll have little faith in "THE GREATEST F.O. in sports" promises of great productive players coming up and continuing the DYNASTY"" Are you back tracking on that now? Because once I sifted through all the rhetoric, there's really only one way to take that.

I'm not a fan of the developmental team either, but again, it is nowhere near as bad as you try to make it seem.

Maybe I'm just clueless on what is happening on other teams, but I don't think there are teams out there that are just churning out star players all the time. I guess maybe Tampa Bay, but other than that I can't think of many.